Smiths English Clocks Ltd Westminster Chime

[Squiffything]

I had already looked at the repair section and wondered if those might have been your handy work  It's good to put a face to the person your chatting to, it makes it a little less formal and more like a chat between mates.

[Squiffything]

Today I am revisiting the Smiths mantle clock. I never really got the chime working right and was disappointed with that plus the original clean wasn’t as thorough as I’ve seen of movements others have done so as good practice I’ve taken it apart and properly cleaned it. 

Art for arts sake?

 

[Squiffything]

[Squiffything]

What is interesting is the tiny little engraved G on one of the gear cogs. Maybe this clock was meant to be for me

[oldhippy]

Some repairers would mark wheels if they were not too sure about all the wheels. It normally would be on a chiming movements, it would by S for Strike G for Going and C for chime. That is what I was told to do with the first few chimes until I got to know my way around. Never mark antique or valuable clocks you can cause irreversible damage.  

[wls1971]

I have also seen the going train marked with "W" on a Winterhalder I serviced recently dont know why ? also look out on German clocks where the movement is held by screws to the back plate of the dial they are always different sizes so are marked up with either dots or lines that correspond to marks on the plates so that they can be put back in order.

[vinn3]

  On 2/8/2019 at 10:06 AM, nad said:

Starting with a time only clocks and progressing through strike, chime etc is good advice. The second clock that I worked on had a Hermle strike movement with a floating balance. I got it rebuilt eventually but the added complexity of the strike train was nearly a step too far too soon for me. Took me a long while to get everything back in the right place and was a test of patients but satisfying when done.


As far as cleaning fluid, an alternative is the clock cleaning fluid provided by Priory Polishes. Someone on this forum recommend it a while ago, stinks a bit but is not flammable like petrol so is safer to use, is reasonably priced and gets things cleaned nicely.



Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
 

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   i find the best cleaner to be isopropinal.   evaporates with no smell, but no cigars.!  vin

[Squiffything]

I am familiar with that, I use it with distilled water as a record cleaner. 

For this I used ammonia, water and a drop of detergent. This through an untrasonic. Then Brasso and copious amounts of elbow grease. 

Its all back together and the clock side is working well got to sort out the chime which I will be returning to tomorrow. I had a delivery today which will be my next project. More on that later

[watchweasol]

Hi Squiffy,  I use a home brew of cillit bang (degreaser) ammonia plus a bit of fairey liquid and  warm water, If you use warm water be carefull not to soak the plates if varnished just brush and rinse its ok for unvarnished plates. Use gloves as it dries the skin , that applies to all cleaners.

[JimmyD]

  On 4/3/2019 at 6:54 PM, Squiffything said:

For this I used ammonia, water and a drop of detergent. This through an untrasonic. Then Brasso and copious amounts of elbow grease. 

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Hi Squiffy, I have seen this on a few posts, the use of Brasso, it is an abrasive and most post have its use at the end of the cleaning process. The Brasso will have ended up in the pivot holes and will act as a cutting agent and reduce the life of the clock, pegging would help before putting it back together but will not get it all out. If you Brasso the plates before cleaning in the ultrasonic then this should solve the issue.  

[vinn3]

  On 4/6/2019 at 10:40 PM, JimmyD said:

Hi Squiffy, I have seen this on a few posts, the use of Brasso, it is an abrasive and most post have its use at the end of the cleaning process. The Brasso will have ended up in the pivot holes and will act as a cutting agent and reduce the life of the clock, pegging would help before putting it back together but will not get it all out. If you Brasso the plates before cleaning in the ultrasonic then this should solve the issue.  

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   Brasso is not an abrasive !  it is a solvent much like  Never Dull.       vin

[JimmyD]

I beg to differ, The label of Australian Brasso lists "Liquid Hydrocarbons 630g/L; Ammonia 5g/L", whereas the material safety data sheet for Brasso in North America lists: isopropyl alcohol 3–5%, ammonia 5–10%, silica powder 15–20% and oxalic acid 0–3% as the ingredients.[4] However, the Australian version contains kaolin instead of silica for abrasives. This is from WikipediA

[wls1971]

  On 4/6/2019 at 10:54 PM, vinn3 said:

   Brasso is not an abrasive !  it is a solvent much like  Never Dull.       vin

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Brasso is an abrasive it contains silica as a fine grit abrasive.

For pegging out you can use white pipe cleaners soaked in isopropyl  for larger pivot holes use until no discolouring of a white pipe cleaner can be seen, interdental brushes are available in various sizes and are also very useful for cleaning out pivot holes when used with isopropyl , both these items are available very cheap on ebay. 

I find cleaning by hand without the use of a ultrasonic works best for me. clean with brasso, I use wadding type, then wash in detergent then isopropyl , peg out the holes then rinse again in isopropyl and dry.

 

[AndyHull]

Has anybody tried T-Cut car polish? It should have a similar action to Brasso, as it has similar ingredients, so far as I know.

[JimmyD]

  On 4/7/2019 at 12:20 AM, AndyHull said:

Has anybody tried T-Cut car polish? It should have a similar action to Brasso, as it has similar ingredients, so far as I know.

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I use T-Cut on a lot of clock cases made after 1930's as most were sprayed and not French polished. It gives a very nice shine by cutting away the  grime, use the finest for the polished cases. I use a mid T-Cut for painted cases to start and then the fine to finish.

This is one from my work, notice the marble affect is covered by years of grime. The black has had a quck run over with sandpaper to take off any rised bits (about 30 seconds 180 grit)

This is the same clock and the only painting is the gold and the 4 green posts, the marble affect is like new as is the black. If the clock has bubbling from heat it will still work, however use a toothbrush.

[wls1971]

Another product that is useful for heavily stained plates is "bar keepers friend" it is less abrasive than brasso, but must be used carefully and not on steel parts it is very effective at removing black spots or dark stains on plates. 

It comes as a powder a little bit used with a damp cloth rubbed on the effected area will quickly remove the stain. The plate must be cleaned thoroughly with alcohol or detergent afterwards to remove any trace. 

It will react with ammonia so don't use together. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by wls1971

[oldhippy]

There is no need to use Brasso when cleaning these clocks. Horolene clock cleaner is very good for these movements or just petrol. Brasso as an abrasive. You are hardly going to make a difference, reduce the life of the clock, the clocks life will be reduced far quicker if it is left untouched and needs re-bushing. After cleaning of cause, you should peg out the holes and thoroughly wash all parts to remove any access residue.  

Squiffything, if you want to carry on cleaning your Westminster chiming clock the way you do. The movements will not be harmed.  

[Squiffything]

Thanks guys it’s all a learning curve. I did peg out the pinion holes and did not use the brasso on the pinions just emery paper to polish them, finest grade. 

It’s all going well but I’m running out of old practice clocks. The workroom ticks well with around fifteen to twenty clocks singing away although the wife goes mad when Bertha and the little French/German birdhouse start chiming as she is trying to get to sleep

[wls1971]

Get her some ear plugs 

[JimmyD]

  On 4/7/2019 at 8:22 AM, oldhippy said:

Squiffything, if you want to carry on cleaning your Westminster chiming clock the way you do. The movements will not be harmed.  

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So you are in favour of practicals left in the movement. If you take a movement apart for clean/repair and do not do it right you may as well just not bother. Pegging will not get all the silica out of it and may embed some!

Squiffy, whenever you Brasso the plates return them to the cleaner, it would do no harm if you end up putting them in twice.  

 

 

[oldhippy]

I didn’t say anything of the sort.

If you use Brasso and then wash out the parts in petrol or whatever you use, after drying peg out all the holes and make sure everything is clean. If any Brasso has remained, it will clearly show up when dry, if so washing out of those parts will need to be repeated.

You are suggesting Squiffy isn’t cleaning his clock right. No sign of any dried Brasso in the photos of the Westminster chime movement. It looks a first class job.

Squiffy one thing you could do when using Brasso to polish. When all the parts are nice and clean, to prevent from tarnish you could French chalk the brass? parts. Good clocks suppliers will stock the blocks of chalk and a chalking brush, just make sure the brush is just used for that and keep it clean.

[JimmyD]

  On 4/3/2019 at 6:54 PM, Squiffything said:

For this I used ammonia, water and a drop of detergent. This through an untrasonic. Then Brasso and copious amounts of elbow grease. 

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This is how Squiffy cleand his movement

Followed by this

  On 4/3/2019 at 6:54 PM, Squiffything said:

Its all back together and the clock side is working well got to sort out the chime which I will be returning to tomorrow

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Then your comment

  On 4/7/2019 at 8:22 AM, oldhippy said:

Squiffything, if you want to carry on cleaning your Westminster chiming clock the way you do. The movements will not be harmed.  

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Now this

  On 4/8/2019 at 7:36 AM, oldhippy said:

You are suggesting Squiffy isn’t cleaning his clock right. No sign of any dried Brasso in the photos of the Westminster chime movement. It looks a first class job.

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I am not suggesting it, I am saying it, that is why I suggested the change. How can you see inside the pivot hole from the photos

[oldhippy]

How can you see that there not?

[Bod]

I presume the discussion is about the liquid version of Brasso.

Would the wadding (Duraglit) version have the same problems?

The old liquid version, a tip I was once given for it, was to drop a couple of small metal nuts into the can, to act as agitators, (same idea as paint can rattlers).

 

Bod

[oldhippy]

The liquid Bod. The wadding would leave bits on the parts.