Elgin 462 Mystery

[bjd1020]

I have been working on the elgin 462 for several weeks now and am at reassembly. I believe I have everything in place except I cannot for the life of me figure out how the spring in the attached picture is set. There is nothing pinning the spring back to put tension on it. This spring provides back pressure on the stem. I have not been able to locate any tech manuals for this movement. Any tips advice would be helpful.

 

Thanks

 

Bryan D

 

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[Nucejoe]

Have you tried it on the minute train? To hold the gears in place.

[bjd1020]

Im not following you. Excuse my novice level experience but the minute train for this movement is on the opposite side if im not mistaken. I can snap more photos if it would help. This watch is completely assembled except for the balance on the opposite side. The funny thing is that there is a cut out for what looks like a pin to come through but when you install the plate on the opposite side it completely covers the access hole.

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[bjd1020]

I think I found the problem. I was looking at pics of the movement and it appears I am missing a lever that seats from the top which explains the mysterious cavity. It was missing from all 4 of the spares I purchased. I can only assume it was a problematic part and thus the reason from it being missing from each one I pruchased. I suppose Ill have to keep shopping for spares.

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[oldhippy]

This is the position for it to be to set the hands. This is not cal 462 but it might help you to understand the keyless work.

[bjd1020]

Thats awesome. Thank you sir. Im going to attempt to assemble today. Ill post pics.

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[oldhippy]

bjd1020, Please drop the sir, we are all on first name terms or our user names, many on here just call me OH. Happy New Year.

[bjd1020]

bjd1020, Please drop the sir, we are all on first name terms or our user names, many on here just call me OH. Happy New Year.[emoji3]

Copy that Old Hippy. Just a habit. I will refrain from now on. Thank you for the help.

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[mousekar]

If you’re missing a part, I believe I have a spare laying around somewhere, I can check to see if I have it.

let me know.... no charge

[bjd1020]

Thanks Old Hippy. I have 3 actually. Im going to attempt an assembly this evening. Ill let you know how it goes.

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[bjd1020]

Shit. Sorry. Youre not Old Hippy.

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[bjd1020]

If you’re missing a part, I believe I have a spare laying around somewhere, I can check to see if I have it.
let me know.... no charge

Thanks Mousekar. Im still getting used to this app that consolidates my forums. I did attempt to put the movement back together however I dont think I have it done correctly as there seems to be too little pressure on the stem in both directions. Im pretty sure I am missing the way these springs engage with the pins. Do you have experience with the 642??

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[mousekar]

Well, I have two. One was running and one I'm using for parts. But to be honest, this type of keyless works isn't proprietary to just the model 462. I've seen it before in other pocket watch movements. The tricky part are the pieces that screw into the back and poke through to the dial side (sorry, I don't know all the technical terms for the parts). So to illustrate, I took some close up pics and video showing how it's supposed to work. This should help you determine where your error is. If you need a pic of the other side as well, just let me know.

[mousekar]

Ok, well I tried to insert a video, but it doesn't seem to be letting me. So just use the pics, that should help. Again, if you'd like other angles or the back side, just let me know.

One thing I've needed to make a habit of when I service watches is take pics of the keyless works before disassembly. There's just so many variations and I'm not familiar with them all that I can never remember how exactly it's supposed to go back together. Of course, if they came to you disassembled, I suppose you'd be SOL! 

 

[bjd1020]

Thats perfect. Its actually a 642. Dont sweat the term thing. I am just as ingnorant to the terms if not more so. I actually cot the thing together and tried to wind the crown and its locked up. I have the pins set just as you do in your pics. Thanks by the way for taking the time to send them. Yes they help a great deal. I am goung to take another crack at ut tonight and will send some pics as well. I have 3 movements currently in work and Id really like to get one done. Im starting to see many more Im interested in. I have 5 of them that I purchased. The primary train is working as I assembled it once leaving out the pallet fork and everything spun perfectly. Im guessing the locking has to do with the fork. It may have a broken pivot however ut seems seated good when in place. What are you using for lubes? Thank you.

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[MrRoundel]

The Chicago School of Watchmaking books/course has a section on keyless work that includes this style of Elgin. There are guys who sell it online in pdf form, or perhaps even give it away. It's worth having in some form if you are going to work on vintage American pocket watches. Good luck.