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12.79 microsieverts per hour is more than what I was seeing on my watch. I was only getting around 10. I hate the fact that so many older watches with lume are radium based, and the people selling them on Ebay have no idea. I was able to remove virtually all of the radium from the hands on mine, very carefully, by keeping the hands submerged in alcohol and using peg wood to scrape off the lume. Then I ran the hands through several ultrasonic cleaner cycles. My watch now reads 0.30 microsieverts an hour, which is roughly double the background radiation in my house Does your watch have radium in the dial, or just the hands? If it is just in the hands then you may be able to do the same.

Indeed. Whenever the topic of insecticides, pesticides, herbicides, radium, falling airplane parts, spontaneous combustion...etc. come up in conversation, I routinely point (anecdotally) to my Dad who died at 93. He was deployed overseas during WWII (no warning labels on anything), worked in the oil field, routinely sprayed chlordane on the yard whenever some bug irritated him, sprayed his vegetable garden with whatever killer spray he had on hand and worked on watches with radium for several decades. I am not like my Dad--am far more circumspect about things that can damage or kill, but I still have volatile chemicals in my lab/watchroom. Sometimes I even use a pair of these WITHOUT wearing safety glasses--realizing all the time that I am throwing caution to the wind!!

In this months BHI mag (November 2018) is an article “Radon Hazards of Luminous Timepieces” Understanding Risks From vintage watches. Luminous timepieces really took off during the Great War, when a wristwatch with a luminous dial quickly became regarded as a necessity. The hazards of radium paint were highlighted by the story of the “Radium Girls”, luminous dial painters of the 1920s not only shaped their brushes with their lips ,but painted their teeth, lips and eyebrows with luminous radium paint, consuming significant amounts of radium. When Radium enters the body it results in cancers and many died from this. The problem for us watch repairers is detecting if the vintage watch you are repairing/servicing has a radium dial or hands is not easy. Radio-luminescent paint ceases to glow after a few years, so lack of glow from the paint is not a reliable indication of whether it is radioactive or not. The only way to be 100% sure is to use a radiation detector. Conclusion Radiation and radon gas from radio - luminescent paint a potentially dangerous to watch collectors and repairers. Open storage in living or working areas that contain potential Radio-luminescent paint should be avoided. For those who regularly work on vintage watches should invest in a radon detector. If not sure use a mask when disassembling and store the dials and hands under cover and wear finger cots when handling.

If you work a lot with old watches that may have radium then investing in a geiger counter is the correct way to answer that question. Radium has a biological half life of 90 to 120 days that's for half of the radium in a system to be removed for the radium that's not taken into bones. A small amount shouldn't be too much to worry about. It is partially soluble in water so the liquid in the ultrasonic cleaner is now technically contaminated. Explaining contamination and cleanup would be a wall of text but here's a video I found that illustrates how seriously we take contamination in labs. I have the use of a TRIGA research reactor for my physics labs. My job sometimes has me working at nuclear facilities so having the education and radiation worker II cert lets me work with things that otherwise wouldn't be allowed. Only way to know for sure is a geiger counter with a pancake tube. As for the liquid any contamination should be only trace from the amount on watch hands. If you want peace of mind then put on gloves, pour it down a sink where you don't handle food or anything goes into your mouth and leave the water running for about 15 minutes. You can use the time to scrub the inside of the ultrasonic cleaner with soap and water a few times then remove the gloves and wash your hands up to any point you made contact a couple of times. Low-level liquid radioactive materials are allowed to be disposed of in drains. And whatever you do, do not use beryllium tipped tools near exposed radium. When an alpha particle hits beryllium it creates neutron radiation. Neutron radiation can latch onto certain atoms and create radioactive isotopes, in layman's terms they're kinda like little radioactive hand grenades that can also make other things radioactive. Remember the 'radioactive boy scout' who had his back yard turned into a superfund radioactive cleanup site? He used beryllium and radium he collected off old watches and clocks to be the neutron source for his little reactor. It's very small amounts so it's not really that dangerous but if someone say left a beryllium tipped tool on a radium lume for the weekend they could come back to more radioactive material. It's best to just have the practice of keeping those tools away from radium to begin with.

I agree that it is likely tritium. And as far as the color you are right, radium does tend to be fairly dark, even black at this point on some watches that I've seen. Also the lack of radium burn on a light dial points me in the direction of tritium. As for markings for radium, some dials do have an "RA" marking on each side of the "SWISS MADE" just as it would "T" for tritium.

I don't think i would trust your cat to wear it personally. Its giving the watch something of a sideye and probably thinking it will hide it along with its next poo burial. They can get awfully jealous pussycats lol. Crack it open toptime and lets have a look inside. And also the caseback. Im something of a fan and have done a fair bit of reasearch on these. Mine is a decommissioned record with its original nato redial after the radium recall.

I only have one watch in my collection which has radium lume (a 1956 Omega) but rightly or wrongly I do worry about wearing it. I've read most of the posts on this thread and the conclusion seems to be that there is a risk but it's low and most of the risk comes from lume dust if you open the watch. I don't intend to open the case and I only wear it occasionally for a few hours at a time. I believe, but correct me if I'm wrong, that you need a licence in the UK to handle radioactive materials. So my questions is: Are there any UK watchmakers willing or able to remove the radium lume from the hands and hour markers? I would consider going down this route if it was possible.

obviously a defective Geiger counter. Didn't we decide they discontinued radium like a century ago? Yes it is one of the sad problems of if you're going to get upset about these things the radium hands are still amongst us. At least with the Geiger counter you can check your bench and everywhere you worked with it just to make sure you didn't leave anything lingering behind. the bluing pard isn't exactly the problem somewhere in the group were having a discussion. The part I would be concerned about is those are not pocket watch hands and attempting to polish them in any mechanical fashion which you would have to do to remove them is going to be problematic. I'm not sure it probably turn out to be hideous mess but you can probably use a liquid rust remover to clean up the hands which will unfortunately take the bluing off. Then you may build a use some sort of a chemical bluing at least turn the hands blackish in color as opposed to broken hands. But that would probably just be me if I tried to polish them. Then if you have darkened hands that are rusty you can read Lu or just remove what you have.

So i think I've figured it out with a little research. This is definitely a Record Dirty Dozen, one of around 25,000 built towards the end of WW2. But with a Nato redial for a safer lume. The radium dials were decommissioned in the 50s then the watch put back into service with the new dial. The serial number on the dial was given to the Record, a few other makes had the same treatment with a different serial number, IWC, Timor and Omega. After the watch's eventual complete decommissioning it was sold to the general public, this may have been anytime between the 50s and possibly as late as the 70s . This is indicated on the caseback by the bottom serial number which is its decommissioning civilian serial number. Decom. Date either 1952 or 1976. Either first 2 or last 2 numbers I'm not sure which yet. I'm inclined to believe 52 as the caseback has a watchmakers service mark of 1963, but this is a complete guess. Personally i would have picked the last 2 numbers of 76 so 1976. Bit more research needed. The designation W10 came about in 1957 when the ATP watches were decommissioned and sold off to the public. Any remaining DDs in service that went into the stores were awarded this new W10 designation along with the new safer Tritium dial.

I think that is a typo. Alpha particles are in essence Helium, or if you want to be more specific a Helium 4 nucleus. They are also easily absorbed by pretty much anything, so they provide limited scope for damage to tissue, unless of course as Nucejoe says unless you add the radium to your lunch, you are probably fairly safe. There is a full discussion of the issue here. As to uses for radiation detectors like yours, they are quite interesting devices to play with. Mainly they detect beta and gamma radiation, which means they will detect something from the radium hands, just not the majority of the radiation which is Alpha. Most commercial radiation detectors fall in to the category of beta and gamma or gamma only detectors, for a couple of reasons. First, alpha radiation is fairly easy to protect against, and most of it will be blocked by clothing or a thin barrier of paper, and therefore is far less of a problem than beta and gamma radiation. Secondly, and for the same reason, making a detector that is sensitive to alpha radiation is more problematic, since whatever you make it from, must allow alpha particles to enter the detector, while protecting the detector from the environment. I have a couple of devices that detect emissions from old watch dials, (radium and later tritium dials). They don't detect the alpha however, but you can estimate the alpha from the amount of gamma and beta they detect, so I suspect your device should work the same way.

I had a little time just before I was leaving to look at the watch. I was going to see what the date was there's no date code on the back and the movement conveniently did not want to come out and I didn't really want to be handling it anyway. what I found interesting was that the burning was only on the crystal? Usually in the past if I've seen a radium burn it would be on the dial itself. With a hands and stayed stationary for a long time. But in some ways another example of without the crystal you can't look at the watch itself and see if that's radium.

Hi there John, a big variable here is that the age of radium burns isn't necessarily a function of the age of the watch, but rather of how long the watch has been stopped. And the materials that burn. The dial has damage as well as in the enamel shine of the black dial is gone from most of the dial. I quickly put the front cover back on because there was significant amounts of lume dust around. I will remove this when I service it. The Watch ran well when wound and kept spot on time for the day then I just let it wind down, I to have not seen crystal radium burn, but I am guessing that this watch looking at the case which is like new could have sat in the dark in its box for up to 60 years maybe. I will keep that crystal with the Watch as I think it is amazing for a collector. Cheers Graziano

Hello Micheal1962, I picked this up from a gentleman who sells antique and vintage items out of Tasmania on ebay. I have a few of these ww2 Elgin pocket watches and this one is very interesting as it has the original box and crystal with the radium burn. That shows that it has sat somewhere for years and years in the box. Not very often you come across radium burn. Have a great day Micheal

As a decaying nucleus fissions it transforms into smaller nuclei so alpha particles among many others may pop into existance what actually happens, is that the released energy may be enough for making a new particle and the energy flow tends to stablize at the first possible stable state. Alpha particle is nucleus of helium, upon forming it quickly absorbs two electrons to stablize as helium, the newly formed helium is still as radio active as its nucleus, so if inhaled or ingested two major route it may go. 1- It may just go through our digestive system and leave our body, though it may get re-absorbed in vegtables or other food we eat , It wont disappear it just dispersses in nature. 2- It may get absorbed in some organ of our body. It all depends on the chemical composition of what we have ingested/ inhaled. Let presume its absorbed in our blood, it will stay and circulate throughout our body where ever blood goes. providing sufficient amount of radium in our blood it may cause blood cancer. If however the radio active nuclei ends up in our nail or hair it will depart in a few months, so exposure periods differ. Alpha particles do penetrate solid material like our bones or flesh, but only a short distance, it travels only a few centermeter in air. Its a massive particle so wont travel far. Other fission products such as beta or gamma particles are considered massless , they are of elctromagnetic nature so they frantically travel through the space for they have no mass or mass too small that we have been unable to discern/detect, as we speak we are recieving particles released at big bang. Consider the vastness of routes fission product may head and you will see we are the ingrediants of a soup material existance is made of, about all we can do is to stay away from strong current of radioactivity and minimize our exposure to it. Guys who made and sell you this toy "the gieger counter " knew that our brain produces fear when dealing with unknown. For all we know you could be living near a strong radioacrive source all your life, did anyone measure the dose in imported sugare or fronts coming you direction form near or far neighbores. If you work on watches just don't inhale/ ingest the luminous material and stop worrying about a threat thats no threat to you. I spent years experimenting with nuclear reactors and I know for a fact my accumulative exposure is neglegible. STOP WORRY ING.

Some really valid and pertinent advice and opinions thank you everyone. Yes this is a difficult one. I felt right from the moment I saw the watch that it was potentially a "mistake" to do a lot to this one as it is almost certainly all original and has papers and boxes. ... It's a difficult one for the owner because I can understand the wish to be able to make it look "sexy" or "new" again and relive it's glory days and those of his Dad who bought it new. I will have an honest and now somewhat more informed discussion with him and see what he says. Delgetti I had not thought of the potential for Radium either which is important so thank you for tweaking my mind to this potential risk. I will investigate that possibility more and see if I can get any answers regarding this model of Tudor and the use of Radium. Thank you again to you all so far abd feel free to keep the opinions and insights coming. Luke

I believe I have solved the mystery here. Finally got the watch in my hands to take a closer look. The watch movement along with case and hands were heavily modified. Hands are not original to this watch, they been modified. The hands holes were enlarged so they can feet this caliber. Case also was modified and is not original to this watch. The original lugs were cut and replaced with a larger ones.The numbers on dial, they don’t have the radium lumens like all military watches have, they have black paint. The dial seems to be original but far away to by military. Also I believe the case was borrowed from another watch , perhaps Venus. Looking at the star stamp and I’m comparing with the logo of the Venus watch. They look very similar to my eyes. Not to mention the balance wheel does not have the Breguet hairsping. According to my research the caliber 570 supposed to have Breguet hairspring and not flat like this one. Also this particular movement has only 5 jewels. At least this is my conclusion with this watch. That’s way I have posted my conclusions here, perhaps I can help somebody else in the future not to purchase this watch. This is definitely a Franken watch.

It is definitely not a DD ; I will attach a image with an example of DD Cyma. Perhaps could be an early military watch if the dial is original. But how about the hands? They don’t feet the military style at all…they mostly have the radium style hands.

I have an Elgin 8 day aircraft instrument panel clock that I would like to get overhauled. It runs but sometimes stops and has to be tapped to start it back up. Unfortunately it has a radium dial and I have not been able to find a shop that will overhaul it because of the radium. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Denis

Trouble is he is not here with me and secondly I don't want to frighten him if there is no way the radium watch (not uranium as I posted) could possible contaminate his watch just by being in the same cupboard. I don't know enough to make that call but I'm sure someone on here has that expertise. I imagine owners keep several watches together with radium ones? I may be getting a bit paranoid but I need some advice please

I have purchased a geiger counter - GMC 320 plus from a specialist shop in Croydon, UK. It reads Beta and Gamma but not Alpha. I have used it on an old watch I have been given and it indicates it has uranium on the dial/hands which surprised me. This old watch has been in an enclosed corner cupboard with other items and watches. One of these watches belongs to my grandson and I am anxious to know if it is safe for him to use being in proximity of the radium watch. Also, I do not want to keep the old radium watch. How and where can I dispose of it in the UK? Many thanks for any advice as I'm a bit unsure how radiation works.

Also a lot of other antique items contain radium or its equivalent Clocks, watches and dials that glow-in-the-dark without the use of a battery may contain radium or tritium. Ceramics made until the 1970s may have glazes colored with radionuclides. Vaseline glass, or canary glass, contains a small amount of uranium. This gives the glass its yellow-green color. It also makes the glass glow bright green under a black light. Cloisonné jewelry gets some of its yellow, orange and off-white colors from small amounts of uranium in the glaze. Radioactive antiques can continue to emit very low-levels of radiation for thousands of years, if not longer. The amount of radiation these items emit is small. However, it can register on a hand-held Geiger counter if the object is close enough to the monitor.

Picked up a military pocket watch non-runner for around £20, which to me at present with my ultra-noob skillset means "curiosity value". From what I'd seen you usually screw the back off, but this one isn't budging and has some pry marks font and back either side of the crown. Should I have a go too with a pry tool? Thought I should check before adding to any damage! Also, just read about radium. Maybe I shouldn't be messing with it at all and just find a lead-lined safe to put it in! How concerned should I be. Obviously you wouldn't want to be inhaling deeply with the front off, but what is the danger level with this sort of thing? Should a noob be messing with this at all?

If it's Oris it will almost definitely be on the barrel bridge and almost always with the calibre number. Sometimes in a logo shield that looks a little bit like bat wings, the letters OWC. Oris Watch Company. Also sometimes stamped on the inside of the case back. Oris were quite in house , which is why I buy them, I appreciate that they made everything themselves and were family owned. I think that changed sometime around the 90s but I have a feeling the family are still involved in someway and may have even taken back ownership. I must check. Oris was the name of the little stream that ran alongside the factory. The name on the dial may not be Oris, they used very uncreative spelling variations lol. Siro (oh dear my neighbour's five year old could have done better ) Oriosa ( very marginally better). They were much better at watchmaking. There probably are a few more but I dread to think what they might be. Sorry Oris, I love your watches but your name branding stunk. If it is OWC then they are ok, I have loads of them still waiting to be repaired. I have 3 Oris tank watches, 2 from the 50s and 1 70s. I paid less than a fiver for each one. They look lovely although the 50s both need a new crystal and have to fit a shaped bezel. The 70s is in almost mint condition and probably worth 20 fold what I paid, the others probably a lot more. Both had Radium lume on them, I've recently noticed my uncotted fingers are starting to glow.

I think what this all boils down to is... Always wear gloves if you are removing anything toxic or radioactive. No need for lead lined ones, just something that will stop you absorbing stuff through your skin. A couple of pairs of standard latex "covid proof" ones will probably be fine. Even if you have worn gloves, (and particularly if you haven't) wash your hands carefully afterwards. The same rules for radium apply for other relatively common hazards such as lead, mercury, cadmium, low levels of asbestos and arguably even chrome. They and their compounds are all cumulative toxins, so the more you handle them, the more damage they could potentially be doing. Having said that, I've been frequently using lead solder for years, and other than washing my hands afterwards, I don't worry too much about it. I suspect the majority of the lead in my tissues is probably from the days of leaded petrol rather than soldering. Also, as stated previously, be aware that airborne dust is probably the major issue with radium (and heavy metals, asbestos etc.). Wear a dust mask, and keep everything "wet" with some suitable wetting agent if you can. Dispose of the waste carefully.

I've got two other watches that are like that, a "Louis" and a "Den-Ro" I was able to remove the radium from the hands, but not the dials. One now gives readings of ~ 1.5 microsieverts per hour. The other now gives ~ 0.9 per hour. I don't remember how "hot" these were before I removed the radium from the hands.