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oldhippy

By oldhippy
in All Things Clocks

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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Looking at the back of the dial the painted arch is a later addition, so if the dial has been altered is this a marriage a square dialed clock movement that has been re-cased or the case altered to fit in with the style at the time of alteration. That would be my thoughts.

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Tmuir Distinguished Member

Tmuir

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Well spotted wls1971 on the dial arach being a later edition I missed that.

I can't add really much, I'm just pleased I recognise it as an English 30 hour movement.

I'm assuming it would of originally used rope which has been changed to chain at some point, like most were.

It looks like something is odd with the dial posts, the lower dial post on the side photo is not protruding through the plate and is not pinned, so I am guessing the post has broken off at the hole to pin it.

Is the hole brass surround and the spandrals not original as they seem too clean compared to the silver dials and it could just be the angle of the photo but the tops of the numbers seem to close to the brass outer edge.

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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One thing that I have noticed about the movement there is little dirt but all the brass parts are very dull and have a almost textured finish if this clock had been cleaned by hand it would shine like a new penny, I wonder is this damage caused by cleaning in a ultra sonic cleaning machine ? or damage caused by not cleaning an ammonia based cleaner of correctly resulting in some kind of chemical damage to the brass parts, it just does not look right at all

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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It started out as a 30 hour with the square brass dial. More the likely never ever having been in a case, if it had a case it certainly is not the one it has now.

The arch part has been added, no way of telling when. This probably came about by a customer wanting an arch dial 30-hour clock and the price would pay a big part. Then the case would be made to fit the clock. That bottom pillar I think has broken. This would not be classed as a marriage. The spandrels are good and well in keeping with the dial; the brass is also good on the dial. Siler chapter ring has signs of wear but so do many others, it is still perfectly readable. More than likely it started out being a chain driven movement, it’s hard to tell as we cannot see the wear of the spikes, the way of telling is to study the wear and how the chain fits. Rope was not very good and had a short life.

Pointing out the movement with its poor finish. The movement has been what is called in the trade as (pickled) It has been left far too long, in whatever it was cleaned. When new it would not be shining like a bright star, I bet if you took off the count wheel and looked at the other side you would be able to see a different finish and more to the original.

I think I’ve covered it all and well spotted in noticing it was to do with the dial. If a dial is arched always, have a look, if it consist of two pieces it has been converted for some reason.  

 

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Tmuir Distinguished Member

Tmuir

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Thanks for the lesson old Hippy.

I have 3 English 30 hour movements sitting on a shelf behind me waiting for me to tackle at some point, all in various states of disrepair, but I love how on these old clocks you can see all the marking out from when they were made and even the history of the years of repairs (or misrepairs) over the years.

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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38 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

This would not be classed as a marriage

Interesting, I would have wrongly described it as a marriage so an existing movement and dial that is recased  in a new case is not a marriage but a existing case and movement combined is a marriage makes sense.

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Tmuir Distinguished Member

Tmuir

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44 minutes ago, StuartBaker104 said:

Any good ideas why there are dial markings on the back of the chapter ring in the second picture? 

Good question.

Just a guess, a mistake was made so the maker flipped it over and used the other side rather than waste the brass.

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Lenj WRT Addict

Lenj

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On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:56 PM, oldhippy said:

 

If you look at the markings they are in the right order, could be the silver chapter ring is thin. Don’t forget price plays a big part when buying, the same applies today.

Am I wrong, I usually am lol, but should they not be reversed, as we are looking at the back???

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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1 hour ago, Lenj said:

Am I wrong, I usually am lol, but should they not be reversed, as we are looking at the back???

Oh I am sorry. I must have had one of my many senior moments. You are correct about the dial. May be a mistake by the dial maker so he turned it over. As we cannot see the whole reversed side of the  dial, it is something we will never know.

Lenj thank you for pointing it out. :Bravo:

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Lenj WRT Addict

Lenj

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1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

 

Oh I am sorry. I must have had one of my many senior moments. You are correct about the dial. May be a mistake by the dial maker so he turned it over. As we cannot see the whole reversed side of the  dial, it is something we will never know.

Lenj thank you for pointing it out. :Bravo:

Probably saving time and money? could it have been a double dial for a different clock?? a lot of work would have gone into making the dial and back then waste was probably not an option. 

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