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Posted

Real quick question on repinning the hairspring to the stud. Should you remove the hairspring from the balance wheel in order to do this and to make it level or is it best to just leave it on the balance wheel? Any other tips and tricks to make this easy and smooth would be great. Thanks

Posted
1 hour ago, fuse63 said:

Real quick question on repinning the hairspring to the stud. Should you remove the hairspring from the balance wheel in order to do this and to make it level or is it best to just leave it on the balance wheel? Any other tips and tricks to make this easy and smooth would be great. Thanks

Absolutely you will have to secure the new stud. There is a dedicated stud holding tool (bergeon) but I use this tool also manufactured by Bergeon. 

5a8d9600a23e9_ScreenShot2018-02-21at15_51_51.png.77aed5b64a40284ad35eadf40f57b3e7.png

Posted

Hi Clockboy, Thank you for the response, yes thats what im doing, but my question was should you remove the hairspring from the balance wheel or can it be left on the balance wheel? 

Posted

If you are fitting the end stud then you can use the balance arm to secure the new stud. If using this method after fitting the stud remove the balance assembly & turn upside down and then fit the spring and pin. However be careful when pinning as one slip & you can very easily damage the hairspring.

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Posted

Quick answer is Yes, it would be better to remove it from the balance, you could easily slip and damage the wheel, and the hairspring needs to be laying as flat as possible to remain stable. Overcoils are a different matter, they're going to shake around no matter what the main coils are resting on...

Normally the stud will be secured in a fixture, upside down, where you can get to the hole for the spring and pin. The spring is inserted (upside down of course), and then pinned in place, which is the most fiddly part.

Posted

I need to do this task and it seems to be very difficult as you need three hands. Do you need to prep the end of the hairspring to easily fit into the stud


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Posted
I need to do this task and it seems to be very difficult as you need three hands. Do you need to prep the end of the hairspring to easily fit into the stud


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Na just a good pair of tweezers and a steady hand.


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Posted

Na just a good pair of tweezers and a steady hand.


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Once the spring is in the hole, i need to peg it in. Soooo smalll:)


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Posted
1 hour ago, jdrichard said:


Once the spring is in the hole, i need to peg it in. Soooo smalll:)


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if you're using the original pin then yes, it is virtually microscopic. Using a new hairspring pin and then trimming afterwards is the best route

Posted
if you're using the original pin then yes, it is virtually microscopic. Using a new hairspring pin and then trimming afterwards is the best route

Robbed a pin off a russian movement as the original got lost(my issue, stuck to my arm perhaps). Need to hold the stud with a pin vice or another vice and place the spring in place and then try to slide in the brass peg and secure it. Ahhhhh. Need a tool:)


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Posted
Just now, jdrichard said:


Robbed a pin off a russian movement as the original got lost(my issue, stuck to my arm perhaps). Need to hold the stud with a pin vice or another vice and place the spring in place and then try to slide in the brass peg and secure it. Ahhhhh. Need a tool:)


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I've often thought of making a hairspring stud table, like Bergeon made. Simply two pieces of flat steel or brass stock, about 1/4" thick, the first piece about 1.5x1.5 inches square, the other 1.5x.25 inches. Line the two pieces up along the long edge, drill and tap for a screw at one end about 1/4" from the end. File a couple V notches of different depths near the opposite end on the narrow piece. where the notches are perpendicular to the flat face. Screw the two pieces together lightly, insert your stud with the hole accessible in one of the V notches, and tighten the screw to hold it in place. Bergeon used a lever to pry the two parts apart, but this method would work to, just not quite as convenient.

Posted

Press the lever and the "jaw" opens, place the stud in one of the little slots there and release....stud held firmly in place :)  I just looked on Esslinger's and Cousins and didn't find one, but they're out there

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Posted
Yep basically the same I described
 

Another tool project. Will also put little legs on it and make it from a 1/2 inch chunk of steel for stability. Then i will re-stud the darn hairspring and reinstall in on the hampden staff i made and them see if the whole thing now ticks:)


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Posted
I've often thought of making a hairspring stud table, like Bergeon made. Simply two pieces of flat steel or brass stock, about 1/4" thick, the first piece about 1.5x1.5 inches square, the other 1.5x.25 inches. Line the two pieces up along the long edge, drill and tap for a screw at one end about 1/4" from the end. File a couple V notches of different depths near the opposite end on the narrow piece. where the notches are perpendicular to the flat face. Screw the two pieces together lightly, insert your stud with the hole accessible in one of the V notches, and tighten the screw to hold it in place. Bergeon used a lever to pry the two parts apart, but this method would work to, just not quite as convenient.

Need to draw a picture of this.


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Posted
Just now, jdrichard said:


Need to draw a picture of this.


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I'll try to whip something up here in a bit

I may make it more similar to theirs, as 2 screws on the one end would keep the two plates aligned horizontially. Even the little lever wouldn't be that hard, cutting the slot for it would be the challenge.

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, jdrichard said:

Saw one on ebay but way too expensive


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Bergeon (and the people that own them) are VERY proud of their tools, and prices reflect it unfortunately

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Posted
2 minutes ago, khunter said:

Bergeon (and the people that own them) are VERY proud of their tools, and prices reflect it unfortunately

Question is, is that a founded proudness, or some sort of snobist show-off?

Because, you know, Bergeon doesn't even make tools, they just resell. Leveraging a century-old high-profitability business model which is based on perceived exclusiveness.

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Posted
44 minutes ago, jdm said:

Question is, is that a founded proudness, or some sort of snobist show-off?

Because, you know, Bergeon doesn't even make tools, they just resell. Leveraging a century-old high-profitability business model which is based on perceived exclusiveness.

True "value" is almost always perception. It's worth what someone will pay, and in their case, people pay the premium for the name, and I'll admit, the quality is there as well, but is it truly "worth" the asking price? I guess the market decides.....

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Posted
Here's a drawing I made up in a CAD program, would be pretty simple to make I think......thoughts and ideas??
5a8f28ad27e1f_hairspringtable.thumb.jpg.33eba7c892ddf4203f98483e603564c0.jpg

That was quick!!


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    • Hello and welcome to the fo4um. Enjoy
    • Welcome to the forum, enjoy.
    • You're asking a pretty broad question and you didn't specify the machine but yes it's simple especially if you have the right machine. The question has problems but I'll take it as it is. Is it really that simple yes especially if you have the right machine. So in the video below he's making a screw and yes it really is that simple but pay attention to the machine it is not simple at all probably wasn't cheap but it is small it will probably fit in your garage. Unfortunately wouldn't fit in my garage as it's far too cluttered up with things. In the video he talks about making a screw and pay attention to the machine. The machine has lots and lots and lots of cutters and lots of things to do lots of machining all-in-one machine conceivably one step after another all programmable. If you look at his channel lots of CNC's stuff and there are several other videos related to this machine. He goes to the factory where they talk about it and show all the other machines they make in Switzerland.  I did look up the specifications the machine I don't recall the price it's not going to cut wheels I think it has a maximum diameter around 11 mm basically it's really good for making small diameter watch parts. Then in one of the other videos he goes to a factory that used to make parts with waterpowered machinery been in business for 100 years and everything they now make is made with CNC machines including this one. What was interesting with the factory photo was that when they make some parts they can put them on a optical comparator comparator compares with whatever the reference is and the machine can be programmed to adjust its cutting to make sure everything is actually being made to specifications. Oh and then somewhere in all of this there was at least one picture of a balance staff can't have a CNC Swiss machine without making balance staffs.   It would be really nice if we had pictures of the machine. Then yes if you look at the page for wheel cutting you can enter parameters and it will generate a G code but he left out things? Notice he has a picture of a complete wheel but the G code isn't making a complete wheel it's only cutting the gear teeth I don't see whereas the program for crossing out the spokes? Typically when you see people cutting gears once the teeth are cut most the time the spokes are cut by hand. Occasionally someone will mill them out but typically not with the program which seems strange if you have CNC capability for instance one of my friends fill it used to design assembly line equipment or things to make things. So his hobby was to continue to make tools to make things like clocks. Very interesting and clever clocks but his true fund was making the machines to make the clocks. Then machine is not controlled by G code like we would typically find today as the stepping motor controller he has was made a long time ago and the individual controllers used a textbased program. So the company had a editor you could write a program to cause each the stepping motors to do something. So basically once you figure out how to cut a gear he would just change the parameters for different size gears so here's an example of a gear as you can see we have the teeth and the spokes. Then we have a picture the machine which sucks because it would've been so much nicer if I could've taken a picture when it was cutting a gears so we can see things better. Then yes there is a worm gear stepping motor indexing this is a mini lathe and the indexing is at the end of the lathe head hiding. The basic operation of this machine would be brass sheet not cut to a specific diameter size not even round mounted on the machine. Then it turns and a milling cutter will cut the diameter. Then the gear would be cut with a gear cutter. The same mill cutter for the diameter although conceivably change the size I don't know but basically the same milling for cutting the outer diameter would be used to cut the spokes. I really can't remember how he did the center hole but whatever it was was very precise.          
    • Yeah I know the site and the creator of it.  the two video clips are good examples of the quicker method and a full tear down.  the quick method will work in many cases. But not always and not for all the different movements.  I strongly suggest to not bend the four tabs as was done in the first clip.  Instead there are three tabs that insert into the top plate, Much saver way as to not break a tab.
    • I found a motor that is 3/4 hp and another that is 1.2hp. They come with speed controller. So I don’t think I would need a wiring diagram. But I sure appreciate you offering your help! Do you think 1.2 hp would be too much for a watchmaker’s lathe?
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