Problems with polishing a watch case

[bojan1990]

Hello,

currently, I am experimenting with polishing an old watch case made out of stainless steel. I polish everything with hand, I am basically tried to follow the tutorial made by Nickolas Hacko here http://www.clockmaker.com.au/rolex/rolex_case_polishing.html I started with P220, moved to P800 and P1500. However, the scratches were still visible, so I continued with Silicon Carbide 1200/4000 (I would say this is the finest sandpaper I had). After that, I proceeded with the polishing paste, but the little scratches were still visible (not at the whole surface, but parts of them). I also noticed that the flat parts (side surfaces) were better polished compared to the front (oval) surfaces of the watch. Probably due to the straighter moves I had to make in this area. Any ideas what to do next or where I made mistake?

Thanks!

[clockboy]

 I think you need to consider "Buffing" See vid attached. Removing by hand using with different grades of emery paper seems slow.Also keeping everything square and with the correct shape will be difficult.

 

[jdm]

  On 10/30/2017 at 7:59 AM, bojan1990 said:

I started with P220, moved to P800 and P1500

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Never use abrasive paper on a watch case, is very bad for a (self appointed) watchmaker to suggest that. As mentioned, buffing and polishing with a rotary tool is the proper technique. There are few more valid YT videos on the subject.

[Geo]

  On 10/30/2017 at 9:23 AM, jdm said:

Never use abrasive paper on a watch case, is very bad for a (self appointed) watchmaker to suggest that. 

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Why?

[jdm]

  On 10/30/2017 at 10:20 AM, Geo said:

Why?

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Because it's not needed. As shown in the video above, buffing does not just remove material, but it also moves it.  It is a much less aggressive method with a reduced number of passes, and associated mess.

[Geo]

That's fine if you have both the machinery and skill to use it!   I would like to inform folk it is so easy to round sharp edges and loose the original profile..........very quickly. 

Using various grades of wet or dry paper, a piece of wood with metal polish and finally a silver polishing cloth will result in a black polish finish.  Using this method (it does take some time) there is far less chance of damaging original profiles.  More importantly,  by using this method you can carefully reclaim profiles that have been damaged.  I have seen more damage caused by folk using buffs that anything, and not always by amateurs.

[jdm]

  On 10/30/2017 at 11:00 AM, Geo said:

That's fine if you have both the machinery and skill to use it!   I would like to inform folk it is so easy to round sharp edges and loose the original profile..........very quickly. 

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Machinery consist in an rotary tool or even a just a drill , which you can jury rig to a vice, even a proper suppor will cost few Euros.

For the rest I don't agree with using abrasives, which remove more material which can never be put back. Of course, if at the end of the process one finds that polishing compound works better when applied by hand, that is fine, but so far I've achieved the best results with small felt wheels, some are knife shape, etc.. Cousins has a lot of these.

The supposed damage to sharp edges is a vastly exaggerated issue, for one not all cases have sharp edges, or damage near to the edges. I've successfully repaired or refinished tens of case, and some were badly damaged. Of course as in everything which involves manual skills, one has to use judgement and control of the technique.

Edited October 30, 2017 by jdm

[Marc]

  On 10/30/2017 at 11:33 AM, jdm said:

I don't agree with using abrasives

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Buffing/polishing compounds are abrasives.

[Latvas]

Try looking at michael bolton on youtube, i learned a lot from him, [emoji1303]


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[jdm]

  On 10/30/2017 at 12:04 PM, Marc said:

Buffing/polishing compounds are abrasives.

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Of course they are. If you read my postings and watch the video (by the premier watchmaking school in the USA) above, you will notice that the idea is to abrading less, and move material with heat. These are the main advantages of buffing over a pure abrasive action.

[Latvas]

And i think michael boltons methods are the same as yours, i like the way he works, keeping the lines sharp, by hand .
Buffing with a big machine,are in my opinion, just too dangerous, and i dont want to end up with a lump of shiny metal, with no lines !!
And btw its always a good idea to practise on a scrap case before you let the abrasive sink into valuable items ! Been there done that ! [emoji849]


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[Latvas]

Restored by michael bolton [emoji15][emoji1303]
I know some would say he removed the patina, i dont care, this is the result i like [emoji41][emoji1591]


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[jdm]

Restored by myself .

Had deep dings on bezel and case side, but made one more happy owner now.  Something which I still need to perfection is the very peculiar non-directional satin finish that is proper for the top of lugs, and the circular finish on the case back, for which a lathe will be enough.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by jdm

[bojan1990]

  On 10/30/2017 at 3:08 PM, Latvas said:

Try looking at michael bolton on youtube, i learned a lot from him,


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Thanks, I will take a look on that. However, I do not have any machine available. Hope I can do something only by hand for now.

[Ishima]

A bit like oils, this is one of those hot button issues.
I don't think anyone is necessarily 'wrong' but my perspective - whatever it's worth - is much in line with JDMs, proper/best practice for case/bracelet refurbishment relies on buffing, which removes microscopic amounts of material and simply moves the vast majority of the metal into its original shape, when that's an option i find it hard to justify sanding and removing significant amounts of metal to remove the appearance of scratches. It does have risks and skill/knowledge requirements like a lot of things, however.
If you have the knowledge, skill, and experience there are very few cases (no pun intended) where it would be unavoidable for you to smooth a sharp edge, mostly on bracelets i think.
What some people don't realize is that you can sometimes even buff a sharp edge back, at least to an extent, though you may not exactly be able to shave with it. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Ishima

[clockboy]

I prefere to buff but it does make a lot of mess which is a real problem for me as I only have a small workshop.  I therefore tend to just polish cases with a "Proxon" and different grades of  Dialux waxes. I get really some nice finishes but it does not remove dings. 

[jdm]

  On 11/1/2017 at 6:47 PM, clockboy said:

I therefore tend to just polish cases with a "Proxon" and different grades of  Dialux waxes. I get really some nice finishes but it does not remove dings. 

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That is exactly what I do, but I switch to a drill with a 5cm wheel for the deepest scratches and dings. You need orange Dialux for buffing. Grey works too to a limited extent. To limit mess place vice, tool and all in a cardboard box and work inside there.

[Ishima]

Interesting, only ever gone as far as grey (on felt) seemed aggressive enough, but maybe i need to make that addition, soon ill have a complete dialux rainbow... 

 

[hir3na5hra]

  On 10/30/2017 at 7:59 AM, bojan1990 said:

Hello,
currently, I am experimenting with polishing an old watch case made out of stainless steel. I polish everything with hand, I am basically tried to follow the tutorial made by Nickolas Hacko here http://www.clockmaker.com.au/rolex/rolex_case_polishing.html I started with P220, moved to P800 and P1500. However, the scratches were still visible, so I continued with Silicon Carbide 1200/4000 (I would say this is the finest sandpaper I had). After that, I proceeded with the polishing paste, but the little scratches were still visible (not at the whole surface, but parts of them). I also noticed that the flat parts (side surfaces) were better polished compared to the front (oval) surfaces of the watch. Probably due to the straighter moves I had to make in this area. Any ideas what to do next or where I made mistake?
Thanks!

Hi. I think after getting rid of most of the scratching with the rough grades and moving down to P1500, move on to the buffing wheels. Use a calico mop with Hyfin. It polishes steel up immaculately. [emoji16]

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[jdm]

  On 11/2/2017 at 9:35 AM, hir3na5hra said:

Hi. I think after getting rid of most of the scratching with the rough grades and moving down to P1500, move on to the buffing wheels. \

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Again... do not use abrasive paper on watches cases, as it removes material and make you work longer and unnecessarily.

[hir3na5hra]

  On 11/2/2017 at 9:49 AM, jdm said:

Again... do not use abrasive paper on watches cases, as it removes material and make you work longer and unnecessarily.

If you want to remove heavy scratching from steel, it's absolutely necessary. I've been doing it for years. How can you possibly just shine over scratches! Are you saying companies like Rolex, Richard Mills and Patel Phillips never grind away scratches before polishing? Let me tell you that they do as I've worked with them.

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[hir3na5hra]

  On 11/2/2017 at 9:58 AM, hir3na5hra said:

If you want to remove heavy scratching from steel, it's absolutely necessary. I've been doing it for years. How can you possibly just shine over scratches! Are you saying companies like Rolex, Richard Mille and Patek Phillipe never grind away scratches before polishing? Let me tell you that they do as I've worked with them.

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Haha! Patel Phillips

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[jdm]

  On 11/2/2017 at 10:02 AM, hir3na5hra said:

Haha! Patel Phillips

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Say what? Maybe with your 7 posts count you can help us have a laugh too.

[hir3na5hra]

  On 11/2/2017 at 3:45 PM, jdm said:

Say what? Maybe with your 7 posts count you can help us have a laugh too.

You actually counted my posts? Quality my friend... Not quantity.

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[hir3na5hra]

  On 11/2/2017 at 3:45 PM, jdm said:

Say what? Maybe with your 7 posts count you can help us have a laugh too.

You actually counted my posts? Quality my friend... Not quantity.

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