Help with regulating mechanical Tissot

[PJA]

Hello there.

I've just gotten my new Timegrapher and started to check our watches. I tested this vintage Tissot (20mm long) and the Rate reading was +350 s/d and Beat Error 0.2 ms after I have moved the lever all the way to the left (slowing it down) it reads now +130 s/d but unfortunately the Beat Error went up to 9.0 ms. THis watch haven't used for about 10 years and looking at it, it seems to be very clean, so I guess it might need to be oiled but other than that, what else I need to do? Shall I move the other leverI've marked in the photo (as I understand it regulates the beat rates and I see many warns not to move it)?

Thank you for your help!

[Chopin]

I can't say that Ive encountered a vintage watch with the lever that you usually shouldn't touch being in the wrong position so far but it can happen, obviously.

I'm assuming you just have to set both of them in such a way until you get it right but I do believe that you should first disassemble, clean and service the movement firstly and only afterwards "play" with the levers although you might just have to adjust the regulator.

[szbalogh]

With the SF You adjust the beat error. Do this first! 

Then with the other one adjust the rate

[PJA]

Afer a few hours of playing with the levers this is what I've ended up with, but unfortunately, the results only good when the watch is laying flat, nevertheless comparing what I've started with +350 s/d. I feel that it is fair enough for my first time. Thanks for the suggestions and encouragements guys.

[jdm]

There is not enough amplitude (bare minimum 200 deg. on Swiss mov.t) to make it run reliably. The wavy pattern indicates that the mainspring struggles in providing constant power. The watch might be able to keep good time, but that would be a lucky occurrence. Certainly you did a good job in regulating for a first time.

[PJA]

Good to know. Thank you

Edited September 12, 2017 by PJA
Changing location

[PJA]

  On 9/12/2017 at 7:47 PM, jdm said:

There is not enough amplitude (bare minimum 200 deg. on Swiss mov.t) to make it run reliably. The wavy pattern indicates that the mainspring struggles in providing constant power. The watch might be able to keep good time, but that would be a lucky occurrence. Certainly you did a good job in regulating for a first time.

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Good to know. Thank you

[FlyingWatchmaker]

A little more detail... the part that you have labelled S F is the hairspring stud holder, moving this changes where the point of rest of the impulse pin/roller jewel is in relation to the pallet fork, by moving this around you change the distance of each half of the balance swing (the tick and tock)

The other part noted is regulator arm which holds the curb pins, these change the effective length of the hairspring to regulate the timing. Moving them further away from the stud holder (in this case clockwise) will shorten the hairspring, making the watch gain time. Moving them closer to the stud holder (anti-clockwise) lengthen the hairspring, making the watch lose time.

As you found, there is a relationship between the 2 parts, that mean changing one affects the other.

Tom

[PJA]

Thank you.

[clockboy]

The low amplitude could  be lack of cleanliness i.e. oil congealed oil/dirt in the balance jewels. This will slow to balance with a greater effect showing crown up/down etc. This watch in my opinion needs a service & clean & re-lubricating before any further adjustments. 

[PJA]

  On 9/13/2017 at 11:44 AM, clockboy said:

The low amplitude could  be lack of cleanliness i.e. oil congealed oil/dirt in the balance jewels. This will slow to balance with a greater effect showing crown up/down etc. This watch in my opinion needs a service & clean & re-lubricating before any further adjustments. 

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I thought so and was thinking more about lubricating it (I guess as a person who has never dealt with taking things apart, I am kind of avoiding it, but now I have to do it obviously). Thank you for letting me know.

[jdm]

  On 9/13/2017 at 2:40 PM, PJA said:

I thought so and was thinking more about lubricating it (I guess as a person who has never dealt with taking things apart, I am kind of avoiding it, but now I have to do it obviously).

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That is a ladies mov.t which makes it more difficult for a beginner, definitely not recommended. To learn is better that you choose a larger one. Follow Mark's lessons for examples.

[szbalogh]

  On 9/13/2017 at 3:59 PM, jdm said:

That is a ladies mov.t which makes it more difficult for a beginner, definitely not recommended. To learn is better that you choose a larger one. Follow Mark's lessons for examples.

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  On 9/13/2017 at 2:40 PM, PJA said:

I thought so and was thinking more about lubricating it (I guess as a person who has never dealt with taking things apart, I am kind of avoiding it, but now I have to do it obviously). Thank you for letting me know.

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Yes, start with a basic 19'" swiss pocket watch movement first!

[PJA]

Makes sense of starting with a bigger watch. Thanks.

[clockboy]

  On 9/13/2017 at 2:40 PM, PJA said:

I thought so and was thinking more about lubricating it (I guess as a person who has never dealt with taking things apart, I am kind of avoiding it, but now I have to do it obviously). Thank you for letting me know.

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Just lubricating the watch is not a good idea. It could make matters worse because if it is dirty you are just making a bigger sludge for the pivots to turn in. 

[PJA]

  On 9/13/2017 at 6:34 PM, clockboy said:

Just lubricating the watch is not a good idea. It could make matters worse because if it is dirty you are just making a bigger sludge for the pivots to turn in. 

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SO you think I should take a chance and try to clean it or first practice on a few bigger watches I've ordered from eBay amongst them Siko 7s26?

[clockboy]

I don't know what experience you have but stripping, cleaning, re-assembly and lubrication are the very basics all watch repairers or hobbyist should have.  If not confident with this then I suggest leave well alone as it is very easy to distroy a watch.

[JohnR725]

  On 9/12/2017 at 2:49 PM, PJA said:

seems to be very clean, so I guess it might need to be oiled

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The problem with visually looking at a watch and seeing that it's clean isn't really a fair assessment of the condition of the watch. Combined with a timing machine result especially if the amplitude is incredibly low is better. That tells you that while it may look clean it's not clean as others have noted above. The problem with lubrication it doesn't just disappear in it can do a variety of things including get very gummy which results in low amplitude. Depending upon how well the watch was sealed Moisture can get in pivots can get rusty. Then combined with fresh new lubricant it makes a really nice grinding compound.

Then as far as starting with a Seiko wristwatch Like the 7s26 It's still considered a small watch to start with your better off with a pocket watch movement to practice assembling and disassembling. What works really well for beginners watch is the 6497 Or 6498. You can either buy the Swiss or the Chinese clone of this on eBay it's basically a nice big wristwatch. Then as you can buy the movement you not destroying a total watch just in case something undesirable happens which usually happens to beginners.

[jdm]

  On 9/13/2017 at 6:37 PM, PJA said:

SO you think I should take a chance and try to clean it or first practice on a few bigger watches I've ordered from eBay amongst them Siko 7s26?

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That is what many "quick learners" have chosen, including myself. One good reason is when you get it working you may end with a nice current watch of any size rather than a vintage looking large one. Personally I didn't find anything very difficult working on it.

[PJA]

  On 9/13/2017 at 6:43 PM, clockboy said:

I don't know what experience you have but stripping, cleaning, re-assembly and lubrication are the very basics all watch repairers or hobbyist should have.  If not confident with this then I suggest leave well alone as it is very easy to distroy a watch.

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I don't have any experience except changing batteries and some minor repairs of fixing contact on a Timex watch, I started reading some books, but I usually feel much more comfortable asking here before making I start working on something because of the wealth of knowledge that the members have here. As you can tell I am the kind of person who makes small steps first before I start running.

[PJA]

  On 9/13/2017 at 8:01 PM, jdm said:

That is what many "quick learners" have chosen, including myself. One good reason is when you get it working you may end with a nice current watch of any size rather than a vintage looking large one. Personally I didn't find anything very difficult working on it.

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Also with Mark's great video lessons of how to Disassemble/Assemble the 7s26 on Youtube, I think I'll be able to take care of the 7s26.

[PJA]

  On 9/13/2017 at 6:48 PM, JohnR725 said:

What works really well for beginners watch is the 6497 Or 6498. You can either buy the Swiss or the Chinese clone of this on eBay it's basically a nice big wristwatch. 

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I'll be looking for these movements. Thanks.