Genuine "Leather" watch straps

[Endeavor]

About two months ago I bought, marked as a genuine leather Nato watch strap, from a British UK based seller on eBay

I paid £9.95 plus £1.95 postage. The strap had a bit of a plastic feel & look to it, so I was wondering whether it was real leather. The strap was too long, so I cut a piece off and did a leather "test" with a flame......it seemed real leather.....

Now, two months wearing it, the strap looks like cardboard, the color comes off and it has shabby look.

I started looking into & learn about leather for perhaps making my own strap(s). Never knew a lot about leather, but I discovered (for me) a new world. There a many different tanning methods to tan leather, all with their own characteristics. Then there are ways to split leather (top-grain from the raw-hide) and there is a grey area where a material can technically still be called "leather". Then from which animal, and which part of the animal. I'm afraid my watch-strap is made of one of those technically "still-can-be-called-leather" materials, but not from the leather I was after.

Turns out that the one of the properties of leather I was after is called vegetable tanned full grain. This type of leather is stiff to begin with, but loosens up while wearing and gives in time the rich patina. However, this type of leather is getting more rare. Vegetable tanning takes months and needs expertise. Hence more expensive. The bulk of the "modern" leather (80%) is chromium tanned, ready in a day and in any color you want.......but........, the quality and properties are a whole lot different.

Are there any leather craftsman under us who can advice me about leather for watch-straps and making methods? Perhaps supply addresses ?

Hope to hear.....

Best regards: Roland.

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Endeavor

[sstakoff]

Sorry - I can't be of any help with this but I hope you continue to post information as you learn it. I'm sure it will be of use to many here. I think it would be very cool to make your own straps...

 

[rogart63]

I bought some leather from Ebay and  a seller there called http://www.ebay.com/usr/grants-craft-leathers?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2754

You need a large piece to make a Nato strap. Around 40 x 40 cm . 1,5 mm thick. Remember to use the leather in the right direction? It's usually stretchier in one direction. 

Tanning and needle and tread i bought from ukraine . http://www.ebay.com/usr/andriypro?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754

In Denmark you have a company called http://laederiet.dk/

That would have the most stuff for you. Never bought anything because of the shipping cost . But i hear they are good. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by rogart63

[Endeavor]

@rogart63 Many thanks for the info Even though logic, never thought about the "right" direction. As usual with any skill; many things to learn here ! What thread thickness do you use for watch straps? I bought in my enthusiasm waxed flat 1mm, but that may be too thick for a Nato strap. I also bought some scrap pieces of Italian leather in the hope that I can make something out of that. It's 1mm thick, so I have to glue two strips on top of each other (back to back) to get 2mm. My current " genuine leather" strap is only 1.5mm thick ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252410285292?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

@sstakoff Yes, another very interesting skill and very fulfilling when achieved. It all belongs to the group of skills which are slowly dying out. Who wants a leather-strap which, if well maintained, last a big part of a lifetime and has the "age" shown all over it? There are still some who share their skills / knowledge on YouTube. For example: https://www.youtube.com/c/nigelarmitage/videos

Edited July 14, 2016 by Endeavor

[rogart63]

1 mm could work? Ususally i use 0,8 mm thread and flat . Like the Ritza thread. been a while since i did some straps. These are few of those i made.  the brown leather is double layer and the others have a 1,5 mm inner leather with mocca on top and a liner on the back. 

This is horse butt leather. Very hard to work on but is very nice when finished. I u like i have a supplier of this leather.  One layer and folded double at the top. and then dyed dark brown . 

Edited July 14, 2016 by rogart63

[Endeavor]

Very nice straps you made ! If the leather strips I bought aren't long enough for a Nato strap, I'm sure I can make some straps as you did. The light brown strap you made would suite me very fine, and it has already the nice patina I'm after. I guess that is cow butt saddle leather in natural tan? Instead of dying the edges, I would like to "burn" them with a wooden slicker tool and bee-wax....... see how that works Many tools, be it entry level quality, can be cheaply obtained from our Chinese eBay friends. For example a round slicker tool for £0.99 including postage.

Equally, there are many more handy leather-tools (like adjustable edge creaser, hole punches, skiving knifes, edge bevellers, needles, an awl, stitching hole punches, waxed flat thread, leather "cement" etc)  for nearly no money. If I ever get "hooked", and "master" the hand-craft skills (probably the hardest part), I can always upgrade the tools.

Yes, Roger, your results are where I'm after and perhaps with some additional saddle-stitching around the edges Very curious once I received the tools and leather........

I'll order some 0.8mm waxed flat thread too.......

 

 

 

[rogart63]

I use some cheap ebay stuff to. When i do stitching around the edge i use some cheap ones leather hole tools. 1+2+4+6+10 prong . They work fine for me. And awl i use the cheapest you could find? Bought some better needles though. As the cheaper ones tend to break. Beewax is great for the edges? Instead of a holder in wood that is very expensive i use an old bigger paperclip. And an breakable carpet knife to cut with.

[Endeavor]

That's exactly the same tools I ordered But my prongs go up till max 6 holes, 3mm apart and I ordered some el-cheapo needles....we'll see about those.

I've seen a nice YouTube about making your own stitching clamp, and again it requires some skills and equipment too. But with a bit of imagination you can make your own design..... 

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Endeavor

[Endeavor]

Catch of the day ! On a boot-sale / flea-market these two sturdy old veg-tanned leather bags, complete with patina. With dividers and various thicknesses of leather. Back-sides are flush leather; 33 x 43 cm.....ample length and leather for Nato-straps or any other model (even a new wallet). These two bags set me a stunning £5 (top) + £4 (bottom) = £9.- in fiat money back, but a huge saving on real full grain veg-leather

Very happy with my today's market stroll !!

Edited July 16, 2016 by Endeavor

[Endeavor]

I like to continue to share my Leather "Endeavour" so far. One of the first tools required is a Stitching Pony. You get the drift what is meant with it in the video earlier in this thread. There are many differend designs and mine is an addition to those. It's made out of some oak planks and hard-wood from an old table (teak or mahogany??). The leather finish on top is from the (bottom) bag I found on the flee-market earlier.

 

The clamp is made such that the "claws" are about 3-4mm open in "relaxed" position.

The clamp can swivel on its base and is detachable.

The bolts are M8 with wing-nuts.

Here a close up of the claw with leather finish and copper-nails;

When building, the top was square. It was later "tapered" and edges rounded off after the hardwood was glued and screwed to the oak stands / legs / supports.

The leather is glued and copper-nails were used to additional secure it.

Below a picture of the base;

Here is the give-away: the base used to be the front-panel of a drawer You don't want the base to be too thick, but it has to be still strong enough. Also the edges on top have to be well rounded off for a smooth sit. The size here is: 45cm long, 8cm wide and 17mm thick.

The height of the clamp is a bit arbitrary. It depends on at which height you prefer to work and how tall you are. I'm 1.86mtr tall, normal posture, and the total height of the clamp is about 46cm (including base). The clamp itself is about 44cm high, width is 10cm and the thickness of the "supports" is 21mm. If I ever would make another one, I would go for some thinner "supports". My clamp could use some more "flexiblity" and 15mm thick would still be ample. It's what I had laying in the garage and hindsight is a beautiful thing ....... Nevertheless, it works as a treat !

Next to that, some tools are required. I had tools of my own, but needed additional for leather-skills. The next picture shows what I'm using now. If I would persue this hobby, and start to do more sophisticated projects, more tools may be required ...... but I like to keep the machinery to a minimum and try as much as I can by hand.

To start at the top; a selection of different colours of waxed nylon thread. For my small projects I used mostly 0.8mm thick and occasionally 1mm thick. On the left, wounded on a piece of cardboard is "Julius Koch" thread, apparent the best, but I have no complains at all about all the other much cheaper Chinese threads.

Second row: two types of awls: the first one is just a sharp point (which I use for making "scrublines) and the scond one is a diamond-shape awl. These diamond shape awls don't come cheap, but I ordered just a blade (1-1/4" long) and made the handle myself (from the same table ). A skiver to trim the edges. Needles from John James; UK size 002 (in the States you get a different size if you order size 002. Be aware !). A wooden slicker to slick edges, a set of smooth-claw pliers (to pull "stuck" needles through) and 2 sets of Chinese stitching irons; 3mm and 4mm stitch length. Rounded hammer, bone folder, safety- and normal-rulers of steel, used for cutting. Below all of the tools, a cutting board.

Next to that, I ordered 12mm and 15mm heavy duty leather snaps and made myself the setting tools. A round 360 degree drawing template, shown here as an example. You can use anything for drawing roundings or mark the leather. A scalpel and a Stanley knive; be aware that new blades aren't sharp enough, you have to sharpen them yourself till razor-sharp, hence to leather belt on the bottom (also the skiver needs sharpening). A collection of hole punches, Leather cement (glue), leather grease and if you want the "flesh-side" smooth; Tokonole.

A square for making sure that the stitching scrubline is square to an edge, a divider with sharp steel tips for marking and an adjustable ruler.

I would highly recommend to visit these two very educational web-sides of two highly skilled leathermakers;

- https://www.youtube.com/c/nigelarmitage/videos

- https://www.youtube.com/user/satansbarber/videos

Before showing were I'm with my skills today, here are some "Genuine Leather" watch straps. First the Nato-strap featured on the top of this thread. The paint came off and I pulled the two layers apart;

You can see the poor wear. The coloring came off at the edges and at the holes. The strap consisted of two thin layers of a kind of "leather";

"Genuine leather" strap #2: here a normal strap, sold a genuine leather,

It is even stamped in it, so it must be true! I pulled it apart;

A foam and textile core with a thin layer of leather on either side. Bit like chip-wood with a thin layer teak-veneer on top, sold als real teak........ yes, right !

To my mind all junk and a wast of money, hence I decided to make straps myself.

As for watch-straps; at the moment I get good results with with Nato-straps out of veg. tanned cow-leather;

Solid 1.5mm veg.tanned saddle leather. They have to be "broken in" and shape to the wrist. Also the patina has to come with time.

These are custom made to my wrist and have therefore only 4 holes. Commercial straps require lots of holes to suite lots of diferent sizes. I made the "flesh-side" also nice smooth with the "Tokonole";

Here a picture of the cow-leather out of which these straps are made. You need at least 42cm for a Nato-strap. You can see the where cut-out stopped at the top of the leather. Als note the colour difference between the virgin leather and the greased watch-strap.

My next aim is to make other types of straps, which required an expansion of my skills.

If you are curious what happend to the bags which I bought on the flee-market? Well, I also made already a few key-pouches;

The left one is nearly done, the right is mine and you can see the nice patina veg.tanned leather gives when it starts ageing. Also note, the right-hand one is the first one I ever made and has a 3mm stitch length and white thread. I wasn't too happy with the result and ordered 4mm pricking irons and more colours thread. I think, the saddle-stitch of the left pouch suites the leather and design better.

I hope some people may get inspired to give it a try

Roland.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by Endeavor

[bobm12]

Endeavor, I have no words! This is outstanding work and research! Keep it coming!

Cheers,

Bob

[Cad101]

Well what can I say that is quite spectacular and I now know we're to look for a nice strap.

[Endeavor]

Thanks Bobm12 & Cad101 for your kind compliments

I think it's great fun to work on leather, the "right"- veg tanned leather that is. It compliments the watch-repair skills and, like what I've done; making different Vostok modifications, it compliments the modified watches. What I've learned so far is that one has to work very precise; the cutting, the gluing, puching holes, the stitching, finishing-off the edges etc. Any mistake and it will show in the end product. The Nato-straps look in reality much better than in the pictures. Because they were already used, it seems that they are not straight and the holes aren't in line, but all is 100% straight. Slightly out of line, and the strap looks amateuristic. Having made already a great number of mistakes / mishaps, I now know how "hard" it is and hence appriciate Rogart63 straps even better then before. He has done a spendid job on those straps; well done Roger !!

Just like with watch repair; you have to be patient and it takes (lots of) time. As with everything else, the more time you give it, the better the end result.

My Nato-straps are starting to "break-in", they feel great and are already my favourites. No doubt, they will last me for many years to come

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Endeavor

[Endeavor]

Finished my first two-part strap. For me a level up compared to the Nato-strap. The leather is 1.5mm veg.tanned cow, natural colour. The little-lugs had to be skived down to 1mm, glued and stitched together. Just like with forum member Hamish, because it's a custom made strap, only one-hole required

The straps still look virgin, but through time, by aging and wearing, the leather will get darker and its rich patina.

My first Nato-strap as comparison; (due to the bend in the strap, the holes look out of line, but they aren't)

I'm closing off this thread and I hope that the above information will inspire you to make your own genuine leather straps......... or other leather articles. It gives a lot of satisfaction to make your own and you know exactly where it is made off

Roland.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Endeavor

[bobm12]

Very nice straps Roland. Where is the wallet you made?

Cheers,

Bob

[Endeavor]

Hi Bob........ I didn't want to show it. It has too many flaws; it's the wrong leather (too thin, too soft and therefore the wallet comes out of shape), it has stitch flaws and design flaws, but the good news is that I learned a tremendous lot of it. I'm searching for the recommended leather (I deviated from the recommended ) and will add additional strips to make it more solid all around.

Not everything can be perfect the first time, and since you asked .......... here it is;

It's a bifold wallet with on the left side 3x credit-card pockets, and on the right side a coin-pouch. Behind, along the whole length of the wallet, a banknote pocket which will fit any note currently world-wide in use.

Even though not too bad for my first attempt, there is for sure room for improvement

Not for nothing that it takes years to perfect leathercraft skills ...

Luctor et Emergo !

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Endeavor

[bobm12]

I like it, Roland! Nice distribution. I bet you'll get the next one to the way you envision it....as it is, this one is good enough in my book! Since I'm not an expert, I will have to go by your word about the leather and all. Just allow me to say: Great Job!!

Cheers,

Bob

[Endeavor]

Cheers Bob, I'll do my best !

Back to the watches ........

[tima2016gr]

Very nice work, thanks for sharing!  

Maybe you can carve your initials on that wallet!

 

[Watchtime]

Amazing job Roland, really like it.

[Endeavor]

Thanks a lot for your appreciation !

I'm now with my activities "all over the place", making leather belts for friends, making a new wallet design, working on watches and transferring files from an old / bringing a new Macbook "up to speed". My working-table is a bit of a mess

It is very fulfilling to do things yourself, be it watchrepairing, leathercraft or any other hand-skills.......

 

[Watchtime]

are you stitching by hand or machine, the stitches look really straight...

[Endeavor]

@Watchtime The saddle stitch by hand

Even though not really required for a watch-strap, a saddle stitch (running stitch) is a stronger stitch than a machine stitch (Locking stitch)..... at least from what I learned so far is that a machine can't do the saddle stitch. There are several ways to ensure that the stitch is straight; tools and of course practice

Here an article I picked from google about the saddle stitch vs machine stitch: http://slightlyalabama.com/blogs/news/125989635-saddle-stitching-vs-machine-sewing

Groeten vanuit Denemarken

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Endeavor

[Watchtime]

Tak for forklaringen