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Landeron Chronograph with aftermarket dial - redial?

GeorgeClarkson
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GeorgeClarkson Super WRT Addict

GeorgeClarkson

Posted
Posted (edited)

Since June 8th will be my B-Day, and if all goes well I will also become father for the first time (well, that will probably NOT happen on the same day, but I can still wish, can't I?) I decided to pull the trigger on a watch I liked on eBay.

The only issue is that I did so, while surfing the site with my mobile phone, so the pictures were rather small...

Are you starting to get the picture of the issue, here?

Fact is, that after analyzing the seller pics on my PC, I started noticing "strange" things... I will leave the pics talk for themselves... The movement looks ok, as does the case, the permanent seconds hand and minute counter are detached from their pinions, but that was declared in the auction, so no issue.

The issue is that the dial markings appear not to match. Check the tachymeter marking for "60" which logically should be directly over and properly aligned with the 12 hour marking. Is it the picture angle that plays tricks on my eyes, or is it a bit shifted to the right??

I have not received the watch yet, so a personal inspection is yet to be made. Could eventually this be a reason to give the watch back? No mentio on a redial on the auction text... 

What do you experts think?

$_57 (4).JPG

$_57 (5).JPG

$_57 (10).JPG

$_57 (2).JPG

$_57 (3).JPG

$_57 (6).JPG

$_57 (8).JPG

Edited by GeorgeClarkson
frenchie Distinguished Member

frenchie

Posted
Posted

A few things I see that are a bit strange:

- No brand name

- It doesn't say swiss made anywhere

- On the small dial to the left, you can clearly see that the "45" markers aren't aligned

- Strange markings on the outer section of the dial at the 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock and between 2 and 3 o'clock positions

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ramrod Super WRT Addict

ramrod

Posted
Posted

interesting. have you compared it to other ebay pics? i'd be curious to see what you find.

yeah - no "swiss made" on it is the first thing i noticed. another thing - the crystal bezel seems to be in remarkeable condition compared to the rest of the case. there's no schmutz on it where it meets the crystal. on the other hand, there is a bit of schmutz on the pushers and crown. could it be a replacement crystal? they might have cleaned up the bezel when they replaced it.

if it is a redial, they did a great job with the patina, but fell short on marking placement. that "12" and "60" misalignment is odd indeed.

frenchie - are the "45"s supposed to line up?

 

oh - and congratulations on fatherhood. there's nothing like that euphoria. and it doesn't go away.

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GeorgeClarkson Super WRT Addict

GeorgeClarkson

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52 minutes ago, frenchie said:

A few things I see that are a bit strange:

- No brand name

- It doesn't say swiss made anywhere

- On the small dial to the left, you can clearly see that the "45" markers aren't aligned

- Strange markings on the outer section of the dial at the 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock and between 2 and 3 o'clock positions

13 minutes ago, ramrod said:

interesting. have you compared it to other ebay pics? i'd be curious to see what you find.

yeah - no "swiss made" on it is the first thing i noticed. another thing - the crystal bezel seems to be in remarkeable condition compared to the rest of the case. there's no schmutz on it where it meets the crystal. on the other hand, there is a bit of schmutz on the pushers and crown. could it be a replacement crystal? they might have cleaned up the bezel when they replaced it.

if it is a redial, they did a great job with the patina, but fell short on marking placement. that "12" and "60" misalignment is odd indeed.

frenchie - are the "45"s supposed to line up?

 

oh - and congratulations on fatherhood. there's nothing like that euphoria. and it doesn't go away.

Spot on Frenchie on what I noticed too

Ramrod, thanks for the congrats, I am sure this is one thing I will never forget... :)

As per the Patina, actually I believe this is a common dial with normal patina, to which the misaligned markings were applied to make it more interesting.

Whatever the right answer might be, I have some original dials here with me, so it actually does not make any difference. The important thing is that the movement is intact and working well as decribed in the auction and that I can easily replace the dial with an original one (I won't resell the watch, it is for my personal use).

 

frenchie Distinguished Member

frenchie

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ramrod said:

frenchie - are the "45"s supposed to line up?

Pretty sure...

 

Some links to pictures from a quick google image search:

219-700x400.jpg

 

14dabad2d8dfe075409c4831ccd8805db.jpg

 

One other thing I noticed: you have the 2 and 7 numbers, but not the 4 or the 10, which makes the dial not symmetrical. Should it be something like this??

 163273400_-two-registers-three-color-dia

 

Finally, a link to an ebay listing (not mine, informational only): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-HYDEPARK-Military-Chronograph-Landeron-48-All-Original-Watch-L8-/371421599832?hash=item567a73d858:g:7QwAAOSwPcVVy26f

 

IMO, all things considered, it's really nitpicking ;) As long as you're happy with it, it will look good on your wrist I'm sure !

GeorgeClarkson Super WRT Addict

GeorgeClarkson

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Posted

The more I look at the pictures, the more I think it is a redial, and a quite badly made one at that. But nevertheless, I will check it out when it arrives, and if it does look too quirky, I will replace the dial with an original one.

@frenchie: you are right, this is not the first landeron-based chrono I have, and all the ones I possess have the same layout as the ones in the pics you posted.

Attachd a pic of my HEMA Chronograph with Landeron 248 movement that I am wearng at the moment, and my Walker Chrono, also based on a L.248 (pic taken while servicing it).

1.jpg

landeron248_1.jpg

GeorgeClarkson Super WRT Addict

GeorgeClarkson

Posted
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Posted

BTW: the Walker has no "swiss made" since it got so riuned and unreadable, I decided at the time (a couple of years ago) to just completely remove it. I do regret it since...

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted

Congratulations on your new baby, Geoge! Is the new watch for him/her? You are getting ahead of yourself!! :D

Cheers,

Bob

GeorgeClarkson Super WRT Addict

GeorgeClarkson

Posted
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Posted
5 hours ago, bobm12 said:

Congratulations on your new baby, Geoge! Is the new watch for him/her? You are getting ahead of yourself!! :D

Cheers,

Bob

It will be a Priincess, so "her".... and no, the watch is for me :P I already prepared something special for her, that I will only show when she'll be old enough to wear it.... ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...
GeorgeClarkson Super WRT Addict

GeorgeClarkson

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Posted (edited)

And all our fears were correct.... it must be a redial, and a pretty bad one too....

P1010022.JPG

 

Either a redial, or the blue tachymeter scale was applied on a second moment... but please also note from the picture above that the chronograph minute dial hhole, on the right, is not perfectly round, but somewhat oval: it was milled through to better center the minute pinion, which makes me think this dial does not belong at all to this movement, but was later adapted.

Your thoughts?

Edited by GeorgeClarkson
  • 2 weeks later...
RyMoeller Super WRT Addict

RyMoeller

Posted
Posted

This is fascinating.  I always wonder what the thinking was behind actions like that.  A Landeron 248 isn't too uncommon I don't think so it seems strange that so much work would go into making the wrong dial work as opposed to just finding the right one.  On the other hand, it's just these kind of things that get me excited about watch restoration.  It's no fun if the watch you started with didn't have gremlins inside!

Congrats on fatherhood by the way.  I have two princesses of my own.  They're the best thing to ever happen to me.  :)

GeorgeClarkson Super WRT Addict

GeorgeClarkson

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10 hours ago, RyMoeller said:

This is fascinating.  I always wonder what the thinking was behind actions like that.  A Landeron 248 isn't too uncommon I don't think so it seems strange that so much work would go into making the wrong dial work as opposed to just finding the right one.  On the other hand, it's just these kind of things that get me excited about watch restoration.  It's no fun if the watch you started with didn't have gremlins inside!

Congrats on fatherhood by the way.  I have two princesses of my own.  They're the best thing to ever happen to me.  :)

Hi RyMoeller and thanks for the congrats on my fatherhood, I still cannot wrap my head around it....

As per the thoughts behind a dodgy work like the one done on my watch, I honestly believe that it was a matter of laziness after all. The guy probably had a movement, a case and a dial, wanted to "bake" himself a working watch (probably to sell for a small profit on eBay - which he did btw) and didn't care if the pieces all fit properly together... He probably hoped the new owner didn't know/care/notice the incongruence.

We both got what we wanted, though: he got a bit of money, I got a working movement, a case and a dial to remind me how things "should not be done". I bought this watch actually for the spares.... so no real harm.

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  • 2 weeks later...
GeorgeClarkson Super WRT Addict

GeorgeClarkson

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Posted

Final update on this saga.... I used a Landeron 151 to make a new watch using the case and a correct and original Chronograph Suisse dial, since the L48 movement has some issues I still need to resolve.

This is the final result.

IMG_20160720_070221500.jpg

IMG_20160720_070413272_HDR.jpg

IMG_20160720_070517100.jpg

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