6139 Clean But still have Amplitude Issue

[jdrichard]

I did a complete refurb of a vintage Seiko Pogue with one exception. I did not clean the hairspring or the balance pivot jewel. The amplitude does not look good and the watch is running fast. Any advice on a simple way of cleaning the hairspring? I know I would need to remove the balance cock and I think I can clean the jewel. Will this make the amplitude better (most likely yes)

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[jdrichard]

https://vimeo.com/166583074

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[jdrichard]

Another question. Can I simply use naphtha or lighter fluid and dip the hairspring in it. And if so for how long do I dip it in?

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[frenchie]

Your video is in slow motion, correct ?

Yes, you can use lighter fluid. Dip it in, swirl it around GENTLY, for a minute or so maybe ?

The jewel hole is also very part. A sharp piece of pegwood would help.

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 12:12 AM, frenchie said:

Your video is in slow motion, correct ?

Yes, you can use lighter fluid. Dip it in, swirl it around GENTLY, for a minute or so maybe ?

The jewel hole is also very part. A sharp piece of pegwood would help.

Video is in slow motion. Will do as you suggest. Should I throw in the balance cock with the hair spring. Jewel in?

[frenchie]

Yes, you don't need to remove the hairspring from the cock.

I'd remove the jewel too (don't loose it !!!!) (been there done that...)

 

 

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 12:19 AM, frenchie said:

Yes, you don't need to remove the hairspring from the cock.

I'd remove the jewel too (don't loose it !!!!) [emoji6] (been there done that...)

 

 

So. Remove the jewel, unscrew the balance cock and remove it with hair spring. Swish the complete unit in lighter fluid for 1 min. Let dry (should take a few minutes). Clean the lower jewel hole, clean and oil the main jewel. Oil the lower jewel hole 9010. Reinstall the balance cock. Oil the balance jewel, reinstall the jewel. Job complete.

Does this process look good ?

[frenchie]

Swish gently you don't want to end up with a tangled up hairspring...

If you have a small blower you can use it to speed up the drying. If not, air drying is fine.

 

  On 5/14/2016 at 12:24 AM, jdrichard said:

[snip] clean and oil the main jewel. Oil the lower jewel hole snip]

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I assume "main jewel" is the lower jewel, right? You only oil the lower jewel once (I'm pretty sure it's a typo, but I'd feel bad not pointing it out)

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 1:01 AM, frenchie said:

Swish gently [emoji6] you don't want to end up with a tangled up hairspring...

If you have a small blower you can use it to speed up the drying. If not, air drying is fine.

 

I assume "main jewel" is the lower jewel, right? You only oil the lower jewel once [emoji6] (I'm pretty sure it's a typo, but I'd feel bad not pointing it out)

Not the top jewel? The one that is by the adjustment leavers ?

[frenchie]

Yes you do that too. I understand what you mean now!!

...except, what is the balance jewel ? There are only 2 jewel holes you clean : the upper one (on the cock) and the lower one (on the main plate)

 

Here is my attempt at fixing your steps :

So. Remove the jewel, unscrew the balance cock and remove it with hair spring. Swish the complete unit in lighter fluid for 1 min. Let dry (should take a few minutes). Clean and oil the lower jewel, reinstall the balance cock. Oil the upper jewel, reinstall the jewel. Job complete.

 

If amplitude is still not good after that, it might mean that your balance is not getting enough power...

[jdrichard]

Big thanks frenchie for all your help. Btw I am half French and was in fact born in France

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[Marc]

Low amplitude coupled with a fast rate are classic symptoms of sticky hair spring coils.

Frenchie's advice is spot on; remove the upper jewels to improve the circulation of cleaning fluid around the pivot and jewel surfaces, and clean the balance and cock, and jewels in naphtha. The naphtha will not affect the shellac on the impulse jewel so you can leave it in for a reasonable amount of time without any ill effect, I'd give it about 5 minutes. If you swirl it around then only do so very gently; a safer approach to agitation is to use a blower to gently blow bubbles through the hair spring.

When you take it out place it on absorbent tissue and use your blower to dry it all thoroughly before reassembling and oiling.

Don't forget to demag as magnetism is just as much a cause for sticky hair springs as contamination.

Once it is back together carefully inspect the hair spring for flatness and for clearance with the underside of the cock. If it is touching either the balance wheel arms or the underside of the cock you will still get poor amplitude and an increased rate.

Good luck.

[jdm]

  On 5/13/2016 at 10:54 PM, jdrichard said:

The amplitude does not look good and the watch is running fast. Any advice on a simple way of cleaning the hairspring?

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Timegrapher pictures?

[oldhippy]

Have you demagnetized the whole watch?

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 9:56 AM, oldhippy said:

Have you demagnetized the whole watch?

No I have not d magnetized the watch as I currently do not have a demagnetizer. Any suggestions on this purchase?

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 5:18 AM, Marc said:

Low amplitude coupled with a fast rate are classic symptoms of sticky hair spring coils.

Frenchie's advice is spot on; remove the upper jewels to improve the circulation of cleaning fluid around the pivot and jewel surfaces, and clean the balance and cock, and jewels in naphtha. The naphtha will not affect the shellac on the impulse jewel so you can leave it in for a reasonable amount of time without any ill effect, I'd give it about 5 minutes. If you swirl it around then only do so very gently; a safer approach to agitation is to use a blower to gently blow bubbles through the hair spring.

When you take it out place it on absorbent tissue and use your blower to dry it all thoroughly before reassembling and oiling.

Don't forget to demag as magnetism is just as much a cause for sticky hair springs as contamination.

Once it is back together carefully inspect the hair spring for flatness and for clearance with the underside of the cock. If it is touching either the balance wheel arms or the underside of the cock you will still get poor amplitude and an increased rate.

Good luck.

Mark. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my problem. I will use your advise and frenchies as well. I will need to purchase a demagnetizer unless there is another way of unaligning ferrous material.

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 9:56 AM, oldhippy said:

Have you demagnetized the whole watch?

Another purchase. I am getting well equity.

[oldhippy]

This will do the trick. Its always a good thing to demagnetize the watch you are going to work on first, saves a lot of time.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/161822826949?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=9045125&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=aud-133395220866%3Apla-131843268786&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=122

[jdm]

  On 5/14/2016 at 11:37 AM, jdrichard said:

Mark. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my problem. I will use your advise and frenchies as well. I will need to purchase a demagnetizer unless there is another way of unaligning ferrous material.

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You need that as well a timegrapher. Otherwise you can't do watch repairs or maintenance.

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 11:42 AM, jdm said:

You need that as well a timegrapher. Otherwise you can't do watch repairs or maintenance.

Use my tablet program

[jdm]

  On 5/14/2016 at 12:49 PM, jdrichard said:

Use my tablet program

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Screenshots ?

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 11:41 AM, oldhippy said:

This will do the trick. Its always a good thing to demagnetize the watch you are going to work on first, saves a lot of time.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/161822826949?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=9045125&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=aud-133395220866%3Apla-131843268786&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=122

Purchased. Thanks

[jdrichard]

  On 5/14/2016 at 12:50 PM, jdm said:

Screenshots ?

I'll try

[jdrichard]

Demagnetized and fully assembled and regulated. Works ok. It was a rusted mess so I shall see if it continues to operate over the next few days

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