Jump to content

How to open an old Elgin pocket watch?

mcass
 Share

Recommended Posts

mcass WRT Addict

mcass

Posted
Posted (edited)

I was contacted a few days ago by my wife's uncle who had heard that I was interested in watch repair. He said that he had my wife's grandfather's old Elgin pocket watch that didn't work anymore and that if I wanted to see if I could bring it back to life he would send it to me. Well it arrived and it is a beautiful timepiece! Right off the bat though I have a few questions...

  1. Can anyone provide me any info about this pocket watch? Age, etc?
  2. He told me that it was rise gold. Is there anyway to confirm that and what exactly is "rose" gold?
  3. How to I access the movement?
  4. When I open the dial cover, there is no crystal to protect the hands and dial. Should there be or id this how they were made?
  5. Also, there is a hinged cover on the back with a bad hinge. How would I go about repairing that and what was it for?

DSC04080.JPG

DSC04079.JPG

DSC04081.JPG

DSC04082.JPG

Edited by mcass
oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

Rose gold is the name given to the colour it has a slightly reddish tint.

The back should flip off you should be able to this with a case knife.

It should have a glass as you can see it has a bezel and the original glass would be very thin and it would be glass and not one of those horrible plastic things.

If you can open it there will be a serial number and you can look on the internet and find out the age.

The broken back hinge is a sort of extra dust cap. A good jeweller that undertakes gold repairs should be able to fix that for you. If you don't have the equipment or knowledge of gold case repairs I would farm this case repair out.        

  • Like 1
WileyDave WRT Addict

WileyDave

Posted
Posted

oldhippy is correct on all counts, if you examine the dust shield, (cover closest to movement), there should be some marks/scratches where it's been opened in the past. Most hunter style case breakage was due to wear from being 'pressed' shut, like the old cowboy movies, crown should be pressed then front cover closed and release crown to engage holder. Might be tall task to get case repaired, not a ton of good case guys around. BTW beautiful case! Show movement pic when you get open, please.

mcass WRT Addict

mcass

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ok so as soon as I got home from work I sat down and gently opened the case. I am able to make out the serial number on the movement and went googling....this is what I found home.elgintime.com:8080/elgintime/SnumLookup?SN=419300119d624c9e62640e487f352e835a49362.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

Well done I see it's not a fully jeweled movement. A little advice pay attention to the pivots and pivot holes make sure the pivots aren't worn and that they are highly polished and the pivot holes are nice and round and not oval, that's the sign of wear, make sure the teeth are all good and the wheel pinions.   

  • Like 1
mcass WRT Addict

mcass

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I sure will. Hopefully with all of the Mother's Day activities today I can find time to clean and inspect everything.

mcass WRT Addict

mcass

Posted
  • Author
Posted

WOW! cleaned everything and started putting it back together. Everything goes real smooth until I go to put the bridge on. I can get everything lined up with their pivots but the escape wheel and the 4th wheel. Ive literally spent about 3 1/2 hours trying to get everything lined up  for this one bridge.

 

  • Like 1
mcass WRT Addict

mcass

Posted
  • Author
Posted

OK I finally got everything lined up but now I have a question. After winding it up, it isnt starting on its own but if I give the balance wheel a nudge it will beat for about 10-15 second and then stop. Gradually it beats longer the more I do it. So here is my question, does the balance staff and balance wheel need to be taken from its pivots to clean properly. I ask because thus far I have just been taking the assembly off the movement and soaking it as one piece. It just seems to me that it is possible that its pivots are possibly still dirty causing the drag. Would this be possible?

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

Have you oiled it? If so I would take the power off and remove the balance and the pallets, put a little power on it and see if the power runs right down, if so that means the problem is likely to be pallets, look at the stones make sure there ok, not loose or chipped if they look good put the pallets back in put a little power on and move the pallets with a pair of tweezers and watch the action go right round the escape wheel, if that is ok check the balance pivots, jewels end stones and impulse pin, end shake, make sure the hairspring isn't rubbing and is nice and flat, sometimes the hairspring stud can rub on the balance so check that.

WillFly Distinguished Member

WillFly

Posted
Posted

Here's some data on your Elgin:

Grade: 95

 
Manufacturer: Elgin question.png
Manufacturer Location: Elgin, Illinois question.png
Movement Serial Number: 4193001 question.png
Grade: 95 question.png
Model: 1 question.png
Class: 52 question.png
Estimated Production Year: 1891 question.png
Run Quantity: 8,000 question.png
Total Production: 409,000 question.png
Size: 6s question.png
Jewels: 7j question.png
Movement Configuration: Hunting question.png
Movement Finish: Gilt question.png
Movement Setting: Lever question.png
Plate: 3/4 Plate question.png
Barrel: Going question.png
Train: Quick question.png
Regulator: Plain question.png
Adjusted: No question.png
Railroad Grade: No question.png
Quality Rating:  
  • 4 months later...
jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

Posted
Posted
WOW! cleaned everything and started putting it back together. Everything goes real smooth until I go to put the bridge on. I can get everything lined up with their pivots but the escape wheel and the 4th wheel. Ive literally spent about 3 1/2 hours trying to get everything lined up  for this one bridge.

 


I feel your pain. Took me 2 hours to line up a bridge plate on a 7750 Valjoux watch. What a pain in the butt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, mcass said:

How can I find out what type of crystal I need for this and where might I find one?

It will be flat with a beveled edge and made of glass and not to thick.

Hard to come by you could try ebay, or if you know some old chap that's been working with watches for donkeys years and has stock handed down and accumulated stock. I had hundreds of the things but when it came to finding the right one I failed many times, what I had was very odd sizes left me. Try looking for someone who just works with pocket watches try the net.

Alaskamick WRT Addict

Alaskamick

Posted
Posted

Hi mcass, glasses for a hunter pocket watch are very difficult to find.

Can you tell me where you are. I have a contact from another forum and he makes amazing glasses of all types and for a small charge on top of the price of the glass he will fit it to you watch.

Mike

  • Like 1
oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Alaskamick said:

Hi mcass, glasses for a hunter pocket watch are very difficult to find.

Can you tell me where you are. I have a contact from another forum and he makes amazing glasses of all types and for a small charge on top of the price of the glass he will fit it to you watch.

Mike

That's what I like about this forum its nice and friendly.

vinn3 Distinguished Member

vinn3

Posted
Posted

on a hunting case  the glass is not flat.  it has to fit under case lid and is convex and very thin and  fragile.  very hard to find and install without breakage.  the  proper shaped in plastic is easy to find and install.  most people would go with the plastic until the proper glass ( and the expert installer) can be found.  the hinge has a tapered pin with end caps.  very good show,  keep  working on the mvt.  and save the case for later.  cheers  vinn

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

 

Hunter Style or Geneva Crystal

If the watch has a hunter-case (with a metal cover over the dial and crystal) then the watch uses a hunter-style or Geneva-style crystal. Hunter-style crystals tend to be quite thin and fragile, and vary from almost flat to slightly convex, but all must be low enough to allow the metal case lid to close. One of the challenges of fitting a replacement hunter crystal is that it must be high enough to not touch the center arbor or interfere with the hands, and low enough to not interfere with the case lid. Sometimes there is VERY little clearance and finding a crystal that fits properly can be quite difficult.

Typical glass thickness for a hunter crystal is 0.4mm - 0.5mm, so they are quite thin and fragile. This is a great reason why you NEVER shut a hunter case watch with your big ol' thumb pressing right in the middle of the cover... if the clearance between cover and crystal is small, you're very likely to break the crystal!

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

 It says they vary from almost flat to slightly convex. Semi lunate as I recall is moon shaped which would come under slightly convex. It all depends on the front of the case shutting, just had another look at the front and it doesn't look very high at all.  

  • Like 2
WileyDave WRT Addict

WileyDave

Posted
Posted

hope this helps you

19 hours ago, mcass said:

How can I find out what type of crystal I need for this and where might I find one?

Image result for Pocket Watch Crystal Chart

  • Like 2
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • jhoho202
      About repair watch's jewel.

      By jhoho202 · Posted

      First of all, thank you for the pdf file of the book on how to replace a gem. So, if there is a problem with the ruby in the movement, should I buy a new or used movement and replace it? When I watch videos on YouTube of people fixing used watches, I feel like there should be a way to buy a gem. Is there no way to buy it?
    • praezis
      Parts sourcing for FHF 180 movement

      By praezis · Posted

      I suppose @donutdan is not forced to earn his living by repairing watches.  I suppose he does it as a hobby and wants to gain experience, to get better in watchmaking and time is not the issue. Then @donutdan should rather try to repair the damage instead of swap parts from a maybe intact other movement. Swapping parts is not watchmaking. And often swapped parts are not the expected solution of all problems. All mentioned damages are repairable. Frank  
    • Malocchio
      Chinese tools debate

      By Malocchio · Posted

      Yeah I figured that one out when I googled and realized that my spindle is actually from Horia. It's smooth with no screwable cap.
    • JohnR725
      Parts sourcing for FHF 180 movement

      By JohnR725 · Posted

      I am puzzled by something a snipped out something from your image and what exactly disassemble tell us? my confusion is the symbol for FHF looks like image I have below year symbol as a star and righted this instant are not finding what that means? I suppose we could use the fingerprint system to verify it really is what it claimed to be. Size itself is really interesting there's almost no watches in that particular size. Then were missing details in the photograph above like diameter of movements to verify it really is the size and are missing the setting components.   went to the bestfit book looking at the symbols didn't see it. Look at the link below I did find it back to the bestfit book and yes it really is there https://reference.grail-watch.com/documents/history-of-ebauches-sa/ then bestfit book says lists the size as 10 1/2. one of the problems with vintage watches is finding parts yes a donor watch would be good.
    • Simeon
      Oiling Dubois Depraz chrono module pivots (Omega Speedmaster Reduced)

      By Simeon · Posted

      Actually, this could be the issue. Drag from the module could be overcoming the cannon pinion. It was definitely not at the point that the driving wheel was loose on the cannon pinion, it took a little bit of effort to rotate it when applying the grease. Maybe I need to look again at applying oil to the pivots.    Yeah, it's very annoying. I don't want to give up on it, so back on with it over again until I catch a break. 
×
×
  • Create New...