Identifying Watch Calibers

[Melissalea]

Hello, Everyone!

I have these two vintage watches that I need to find parts for, but I need help identifying the caliber numbers in order to do so. I believe the Elgin needs a pallet fork because it has trouble running in certain positions and it looks like one of the jewels is shorter than the other. The Hamilton definitely needs a new mainspring. I appreciate any information, but if you could also explain how you figured it out I can learn how to do it myself. I tried several sites to no avail. Let me know if you need more pictures or information I have not provided.

 

Thank you again!!

[AndyGSi]

The Hamilton 980 is exactly what it says it is.

https://www.emmywatch.com/db/movement/hamilton--980/#:~:text=The Hamilton 980 watch movement,relatively low for American conditions.

Ill have a look at the other for you later unless someone else has responded in the mean time.

The Elgin can be traced by it's Serial Number as below.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/25109280

[Melissalea]

Thank you for your information and the emmywatch website. I did look up the Elgin serial number but it still doesn't tell me what type of movement it is, ETA or otherwise. Unless I am missing that on the specs page. 

[AndyGSi]

The Elgin is an Elgin 477, they call it a Grade, not a Movement.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/guide/company/elgin/grade/477/parts

Edited June 20, 2024 by AndyGSi

[Melissalea]

Thank you very much. I really hate to be a pain, but I have searched on about 10 websites and looked at the Bestfit Book and I cannot find Elgin 477 anywhere. I need a mainspring for it so I suppose my next course of action would be to measure the old mainspring and try to find it that way?

[clockboy]

Welcome to the forum, enjoy.. Identifying calibers is not easy but it is possible with vintage calibres if you can find and purchase “best fit catalogue”  these were the horological bibles before the birth of the internet.  Calibers are measured in lignes. 

Edited June 21, 2024 by clockboy

[AndyGSi]

Not sure if these deal with the public but it at least gives you the details you need to look elsewhere.

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/elgin-mainspring-12-size-MS-JA110.html

Edit

It's still always a good idea though to measure the existing spring and confirm the figures.

You may also want to check this forum post.

 

Edited June 21, 2024 by AndyGSi

[JohnR725]

11 hours ago, Melissalea said:

Thank you very much. I really hate to be a pain, but I have searched on about 10 websites and looked at the Bestfit Book and I cannot find Elgin 477 anywhere. I need a mainspring for it so I suppose my next course of action would be to measure the old mainspring and try to find it that way?

16 hours ago, Melissalea said:

I did look up the Elgin serial number but it still doesn't tell me what type of movement it is, ETA or otherwise. Unless I am missing that on the specs page. 

did you look at your picture of your Elgin? I circled something for you it has letters as because it's an American-made watch

11 hours ago, Melissalea said:

cannot find Elgin 477 anywhere.

if you look at pocket watch database you'll see Elgin national watch company..  Then your grade numbe  is 447 not the number that you quoted is really important to get the numbers right if you want to get the right parts

tthen when you're on the pocket watch database side if you look on the left-hand side one of the categories is parts.. Then from the parts section llego Springs and also about the image we see the mainspring.

then notice in the bottom of the image there is your mainspring part number 1957 strength  .0045. the. But it looks like that's going to be a problem because well mainsprings are always going to be a problem. Which is why the other way always do this is take the mainspring out and measure what it is and then we can look on the listings and verify the spring in the watch is the same size and we think it is. Looks like it's been upgraded to a new part number and as usual you're only going to find one spring if you go with the modern as they don't make all the springs they once did but looks like this is your spring

4 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Not sure if these deal with the public but it at least gives you the details you need to look elsewhere.

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/elgin-mainspring-12-size-MS-JA110.html

I'm confused here as this is not a 12 size watch?

 

19 hours ago, Melissalea said:

believe the Elgin needs a pallet fork because it has trouble running in certain positions and it looks like one of the jewels is shorter than the other

proper diagnostics I think is needed. In addition typically changing escapement components in vintage watches is a bad idea because they were adjusted  to each watch. Plus I see your watch has movable banking pins I wonder if anyone's ever move those? We really need better pictures to see what were looking at.. Then look at the parts list another problem typical with vintage watches looks like there were two separate pallet forks for this watch.

19 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

The Hamilton 980 is exactly what it says it is.

in other words it was made by the Hamilton watch companyanother US watch company. then I just can't do a couple of quick copy of pace and not inform you where all this came from as it's way past my bedtime and I don't have time to explain. Other than typically with mainsprings take out the old spring and measure it as things work out a lot better if we can compare the old with whatever we think were finding oftentimes especially with a vintage there could be possibly validity of variations. Then with both Elgin Hamilton they had the original steel Springs and often times they had newer alloy Springs with different part numbers and of course aftermarket would have different numbers

tthen I'm assuming this is the correct spring

then we discussed this somewhere on the group  because the type of end of spring is this or both of these have you will be extremely unlikely to dish of the spring and you're going to have to the hand wind it in or get some mainspring wagers which would be preferred and then there is a procedure.. Simplistically wind most of the spring into the wind your belief a little bit out the end dish of the whole thing in the barrel which is actually quite easy to do if you're holding a Winder and observe what you're doing  it like the end in place into its slot hold it down and pop it out and as I said we have pictures somewhere to explain this when you get your springs. Because otherwise if you try to shove the spring in the end is never going to catch  and that will be a problem

tthen you go to eBay and search for both springs  you might be lucky and find the original Elgin or  Hamilton spring and yes even though their vintage usually the originals are much better than the aftermarket especially lately where the aftermarket's seem to not be there best.

 

 

 

 

[AndyGSi]

Apologies for my mixup as I'd got the 447 in my original post and then for some reason read it as 477.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/25109280

Edit

Just remember that it's wasn't a spring on the Elgin anyway and there are 2 potential pallet forks for your movement.

Edited June 21, 2024 by AndyGSi

[Melissalea]

Wow! That is a lot of information. I really appreciate everyone's help! I will look into all of these suggestions. 

[AndyGSi]

My suggestion would be if the Hamilton does just need a spring then look at this one first as the easiest to fix.

As advised by JohnR725 the Hamilton spring should be a 718440

https://www.ofrei.com/page2031.html

Just removed a lot of rambling!!

Edited June 21, 2024 by AndyGSi

[Iulian]

Hi to all!

I need help too ...

Can you help me identify the movement in the photos? I found this movement without the case & it is from a chronograph watch (I suspect it is a clone but I don't know whose movement). In the second photo, the rotor and wheel of the Seiko Watch Magic Lever self-winding mechanism are missing.

 

Thanks!

[oldhippy]

The Best Fit books are on this site I uploaded them both a long time age. If you can't find them just ask and I can upload them again

[watchweasol]

Hi. The bestfit books were up loaded by old hippy  using the term.   Mediafire. If you look that up in the search box you will find them . You will need to scroll through the list.

 

If not I am sure old hippy would oblige again.