Tips for improving my cleaning methods?

[mewherman]

I currently use an Amazon chinese ultrasonic cleaner with containers of different chemicals. I use Zenith "radiant" which I really like for clock movements and then I've been using Zenith "Drizbrite" rinse. I think it may just be that my radiant cleaner is contaminated from cleaning filthy clock movements (I strain it through a coffee filter. But I've been finding this results in my movements being dirtier than when it went into the cleaner. I also don't love the rinse product as it takes ages to dry and results in hair and dust being stuck to the parts as they sit. I use lighter fluid to clean balances and pallet forks. I find myself scrubbing plates with a toothbrush in the lighter fluid to get sediment off that has accumulated like snow during the cleaning process. I'm going to start with buying a new jug of the radiant cleaner and only using it for watches. I'm not really sure what else to do to make this better other than buying an expensive machine. I feel that I have a lot of issues that are the result of ineffective cleaning methods.

[HectorLooi]

I use water based cleaners with ammonia for clocks but I prefer water free cleaners for watches. 

Do a "foil test' in your ultrasonic cleaner to see if the unit is working properly.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, mewherman said:

I currently use an Amazon chinese ultrasonic cleaner with containers of different chemicals. I use Zenith "radiant" which I really like for clock movements and then I've been using Zenith "Drizbrite" rinse. I think it may just be that my radiant cleaner is contaminated from cleaning filthy clock movements (I strain it through a coffee filter. But I've been finding this results in my movements being dirtier than when it went into the cleaner. I also don't love the rinse product as it takes ages to dry and results in hair and dust being stuck to the parts as they sit. I use lighter fluid to clean balances and pallet forks. I find myself scrubbing plates with a toothbrush in the lighter fluid to get sediment off that has accumulated like snow during the cleaning process. I'm going to start with buying a new jug of the radiant cleaner and only using it for watches. I'm not really sure what else to do to make this better other than buying an expensive machine. I feel that I have a lot of issues that are the result of ineffective cleaning methods.

Its quite common for folk new to watch repair to struggle for a lttle while finding the right cleaning method using the limited start up equipment. We come into this hobby not knowing if we are capable or how long we will stay interested. That then limits what we are prepared to spend on equipment, we hold back until we know for sure we are in it for the long haul.  The ckeaning medium is only one aspect of the process, drying also plays a big part and there are more than one way to go about it. Letting them just sit to dry will be the least effective, get some warm flow introduced, it will make a big difference.

[Endeavor]

For years, since I didn't know how much further I would take "watch-repair", I've been "scrubbing" my watch parts in Zippo lighter fluid........

Recently I decided to "up" my cleaning game. Bought a 2nd hand Elma S15H ultra-sonic and the "official" chemicals (in my case Elma WF pro (cleaning), Elma Suprol (rinse) and Isopropyl alcohol (IPA).

That made a world of difference !

So, if you are serious in continuing this hobby, fed up scrubbing with lighter fluid and want to "up" your cleaning game to near professional levels; get the decent stuff

 

Edited March 13 by Endeavor

[JohnR725]

12 hours ago, mewherman said:

I strain it through a coffee filter.

the problem with this method of cleaning your cleaner is it only removes solid particles. Anything that can dissolve into the solution like old lubricants will not be filtered out. You can't actually clean your cleaning fluid by filtering.

12 hours ago, mewherman said:

clean balances and pallet forks

then a minor confusion on my part are we discussing clock cleaning or watch cleaning here?

12 hours ago, mewherman said:

Zenith "Drizbrite" rinse.

normally in watch cleaning things are a little confusing in that the entire process is cleaning. So even though the first product is called the cleaner because it does more aggressive cleaning all the rest of the things normally called rinse are part of the cleaning process. If you're cleaning a watch typically would have at least two separate rinses with each one getting cleaner and cleaner. What you're trying to do is put everything in the solution remove it from whatever your cleaning. The rinses continue to clean and reduce the concentration of stuff on the plates until finally there's nothing left.

12 hours ago, mewherman said:

I also don't love the rinse product as it takes ages to dry

this seems to be very common which is why the final final rinse should be alcohol. Basically her rinsing off the rinse that doesn't like the dry ever and using something that will dry. Then heat is really a good thing for drawing as opposed to letting it sit around hoping it might dry heat will really speed things up considerably.

12 hours ago, mewherman said:

this better other than buying an expensive machine

I suppose it depends upon which expensive machine you'd like to purchase. Some of them do a really nice job although you'd never be able to justify the cost of thing in your lifetime unless you take up professional watch repair. Then you can even find videos on YouTube where people of thrown money at their expensive machines and still unhappy with the cleaning.

interesting website below

https://zenithsolutions.net/product-list

what makes the website interesting is it doesn't actually say how to use the products?

12 hours ago, mewherman said:

I feel that I have a lot of issues that are the result of ineffective cleaning methods.

thinking of your cleaning methods you didn't say other than the chemicals procedural things? Like how long do you leave it in the watch cleaning fluid and you elevate the temperature. How many rinse cycles and are they also filtered or do you have a clean clean rinse at the very end?

 

[mewherman]

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

the problem with this method of cleaning your cleaner is it only removes solid particles. Anything that can dissolve into the solution like old lubricants will not be filtered out. You can't actually clean your cleaning fluid by filtering.

Ah, yes, I was intending to buy replacement and keep it away from dirty old clocks but I thought I would try and rescue it.

 

 

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

then a minor confusion on my part are we discussing clock cleaning or watch cleaning here?

Watches, I just was saying it worked well for clocks, and I have no issue with my clock cleaning methods.

 

 

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

suppose it depends upon which expensive machine you'd like to purchase. Some of them do a really nice job although you'd never be able to justify the cost of thing in your lifetime unless you take up professional watch repair. Then you can even find videos on YouTube where people of thrown money at their expensive machines and still unhappy with the cleaning.

I'd like to buy a used old cleaning machine like an L&R with the heater, I feel like at least then I would be using an actual cleaning machine and I wouldn't have to mess around with jars in and out of the ultrasonic.

 

 

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

thinking of your cleaning methods you didn't say other than the chemicals procedural things? Like how long do you leave it in the watch cleaning fluid and you elevate the temperature. How many rinse cycles and are they also filtered or do you have a clean clean rinse at the very end?

I use the two different solutions I have in the ultrasonic. I fill the machine with water and heat the water up to like 30-50 and then i put the jars in the machine and clean for 10 minutes usually. This was working okish with when the chemical was new. Oh also I peg the jewels and pith etc. I had tried to find onedip to clean the more delicate parts but I couldn't find anyone selling it anymore. So that is why I went to the lighter fluid. I read that apparently that leaves an oily residue so I guess I should switch to something else. I also only use the one rinse so I suppose I should get an extra jar and switch it all to something else. The issue is that this is very time consuming as I cannot put the parts in all at the same time so adding a step adds like 5 seperate cleanings.

[SwissSeiko]

I have had good luck with an ultra sonic, Liquinox, and distilled water. The liquinox is dirt cheap per clean, so I just fill my whole machine with it. Then I have a contained of distilled water that I run in the ultrasonic for a rinse cycle. Then I finish with a dip in 99% IPA and set the parts in a mat in front of my fan. For barrels and things with heavy grease, I pre clean with a makeup brush and Naptha. This has worked well for me.

[mewherman]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:01 AM, JohnR725 said:

the problem with this method of cleaning your cleaner is it only removes solid particles. Anything that can dissolve into the solution like old lubricants will not be filtered out. You can't actually clean your cleaning fluid by filtering.

Ah, yes, I was intending to buy replacement and keep it away from dirty old clocks but I thought I would try and rescue it.

On 3/13/2024 at 4:01 AM, JohnR725 said:

On 3/12/2024 at 3:05 PM, mewherman said:

 

then a minor confusion on my part are we discussing clock cleaning or watch cleaning here?

Watches, I just was saying it worked well for clocks, and I have no issue with my clock cleaning methods.
that said, I have worked on many clocks that have a Swiss lever style escapement.

On 3/13/2024 at 4:01 AM, JohnR725 said:

I suppose it depends upon which expensive machine you'd like to purchase. Some of them do a really nice job although you'd never be able to justify the cost of thing in your lifetime unless you take up professional watch repair. Then you can even find videos on YouTube where people of thrown money at their expensive machines and still unhappy with the cleaning.

interesting website below

https://zenithsolutions.net/product-list

what makes the website interesting is it doesn't actually say how to use the products?

On 3/12/2024 at 3:05 PM, mewherman said:

I'd like to buy a used old cleaning machine like an L&R with the heater, I feel like at least then I would be using an actual cleaning machine and I wouldn't have to mess around with jars in and out of the ultrasonic.

Although since trying and failing to post this reply last week, I have purchased improved cleaning baskets and a wire mesh insert. I will be using fresh cleaner in the ultrasonic and two rinses in the zenith rinse. I have also purchased 99% IPA as a third rinse and I finally found a local supplier for onedip hairspring cleaner, so I can stop with the naphtha.

On 3/13/2024 at 4:01 AM, JohnR725 said:

thinking of your cleaning methods you didn't say other than the chemicals procedural things? Like how long do you leave it in the watch cleaning fluid and you elevate the temperature. How many rinse cycles and are they also filtered or do you have a clean clean rinse at the very end?

use the two different solutions I have in the ultrasonic. I fill the machine with water and heat the water up to like 30-50 and then i put the jars in the machine and clean for 10 minutes usually. This was working okish with when the chemical was new. Oh also I peg the jewels and pith etc. I had tried to find onedip to clean the more delicate parts but I couldn't find anyone selling it anymore. So that is why I went to the lighter fluid. I read that apparently that leaves an oily residue so I guess I should switch to something else. I also only use the one rinse so I suppose I should get an extra jar and switch it all to something else. The issue is that this is very time consuming as I cannot put the parts in all at the same time so adding a step adds like 5 seperate cleanings.

Oh for gods sake of course now my reply from last week suddenly works having written out the whole thing again. whatever.

 

Edited March 17 by mewherman

[JohnR725]

25 minutes ago, mewherman said:

I wouldn't have to mess around with jars in and out of the ultrasonic.

who often times you'll find people that have machines may still clean the first cleaning cycle in an ultrasonic then fall with the machine for all the rinsing and drying. I saw at least one YouTube video were somebody was unhappy with their non-ultrasonic machine for over 80 recent's and is seen other videos where that's exactly what happens they ultrasonic first on that goes into the machine. But others are very happy without the ultrasonic.

26 minutes ago, mewherman said:

heat the water up to like 30-50

one of the problems with the cleaning fluids are they typically don't have instructions. So depending upon whose fluids you're looking at or the cleaning machine procedure the recommendation is not to heat the fluids.

then there is a time a factor of how long is cleaning good and when does good become bad? Any of the cleaning fluids that have ammonia or something equivalent to make things bright and shiny have undesirable characteristics if you go beyond a certain point. In other words ammonia makes things bright and shiny by removing the tarnish but when left too long in the fluid it will start to remove the copper and your solution will turn either green or blue color and worst-case you'll frost the plates. This of course is considerably speeded up if you elevate the temperatures so usually around 4 to 5 minutes is the maximum should be in the cleaning fluid without temperature elevation

 

[rjenkinsgb]

I'm presently using a cheap supermarket ultrasonic cleaner, with L&R #111 cleaner and #3 rinse solutions.

I cut a bit off the bottom of an appropriate size plastic sports drink bottle, which is a perfect fit around the mesh basket I use (~65mm diameter). That allows me to use mostly water in the machine tub and cleaner or rinse only in the small plastic container.

I keep the solutions that are still fit for use in small glass jam jars. I use the cleaner then two rinses, then the mesh basket balances on my bathroom radiator (once it stops dripping) to dry the parts with moderate warmth.

Prior to that I tried just lighter fluid (eg. generic zippo fluid) and just soaking / swirling parts in the glass jars, but the movements did not run at all well afterwards, they were still acting gummed up. The proper solutions make a world of difference & the watches now work as they should!

 

 

Edited March 19 by rjenkinsgb
Dimensions added