Breitling Aerospace Runs Backwards!

[PastorChris]

I have found that this is a problem before, and a few threads about it. but no real solutions. This watch belongs to my brother, who inherited it from our stepfather when he passed. I think it was found in his sock drawer, LOL!

It has had this same problem before and fixed at authorized Breitling service center, where the movement was likely replaced, and it was an expensive repair.

The digital portion runs properly, but the analog part runs backwards, which is fascinating, but not practical.

It has an ETA E10.351 movement as shown below. There are springs that press against the back, presumably to keep things tight when the back is on, located at the top left and bottom right. Both move a bit and tracks from that movement can be seen on the circuit board. Im sure I can peen the rivets that hold them slight with my staking set, but an important problem lies with the one on the top left. If you look at the magnified image inside the red circle is a small bit of the printed circuit that has been knocked away by the movement of that spring. This has been confirmed under a microscope and also by other photos of this stock movement.

I tried fixing it with conductive ink designed for this purpose, but no joy.

I have not yet taken apart the movement to see if that little bit of printed circuit is somewhere and causing a problem, but I cannot imagine a situation where that would cause it to run backwards; not run at all I would understand as it might jam a wheel, but not run perfectly in reverse.

So several questions arise that I cannot answer with extensive searching:

Any thoughts on the problem or how to fix it that I might be missing or experience with the same problem?

NOS exact movements are available but at over $500 that seems a stretch, but might be the only option.

My experience with other quartz movements is that older models are replaced with compatible newer models, but I cannot find any definitive information on that.

All help is appreciated.

 

 

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, PastorChris said:

NOS exact movements are available but at over $500 that seems a stretch, but might be the only option.

the problem with quartz watches like this are the watch itself was probably expensive when it came out. Then kinda like working on Rolex watch that's expensive all the components of course will be expensive. Then it appears to be that this watch was only made for one company which presents other challenges like it's going to be difficult to find. Here's a description down below notice your price is better than theirs.

https://www.joseph-watches.com/all-products/breitling-eta-e10-351-new-old-stock-1990s/

then something similar it's not the exact same movement has been discussed before. Notice it's scarce which is what happens when you have a movement that's manufactured for basically one company.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/20912-breitling-aerospace-movement/

notice supposedly there's a substitute movement although somewhere else I saw suggestion that the display wasn't the same?

3 hours ago, PastorChris said:

My experience with other quartz movements is that older models are replaced with compatible newer models, but I cannot find any definitive information on that.

apparently there is a replacement movement but I'll just attached the PDF as it's not entirely helpful at all and I'm sure the movement is not available. It appears to be based on the pricier movement if you can actually buy a used watch for probably cheaper than the brand-new movement price possibly.

3 hours ago, PastorChris said:

ny thoughts on the problem or how to fix it that I might be missing or experience with the same problem?

in general a watch quartz watch running backwards only does this if the stator has been damaged or sometimes they can be flipped over. Usually they try to manufacture them differently so when you're putting them back they cannot be flipped over. But basically this controls the direction of the stepper motor rotation. Because I was curious I found the tech sheet for something similar to your watch so we can look at that part and see how it looks as to how easy it could be modified changed whatever

this is the part that's the problem in my guess is that he probably doesn't take very much to knock it out of alignment and in your watch runs backwards.

not finding a suitable picture this is close enough but you have to use your imagination as the shape isn't quite right. this shows how a normal quartz watch works problem is why the shape isn't quite right is that the position where the rotor stops isn't actually a circle like it shows. The reality is where it stops is a little closer to the rotor which is why it stops in a specific place. So if you were to move things a little bit you can then get the stepping motor to go backwards. Or as I once did I did a little bit a filing to change the intro shape so the rotor stops in the different place and of course it goes backwards. But since you're is is an entirely different shape it probably gets distorted by the screws holding the coil in or just about anything and that's where the problem would be. Unfortunately has these are restricted movements there are no parts list cross referencing where we might billow find a replacement components free orders

 

 

 

 

Breitling aerospace watch 0030_11.03.2011_V2_EN.pdf ETA_ETA 989.331.pdf

[noirrac1j]

Can you try these? ETA 988.333 or 988.432. Please see the attached and hope this helps.

 

Joe

Breitiling_replacement.pdf ETAcal.988.333.pdf

[PastorChris]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

the problem with quartz watches like this are the watch itself was probably expensive when it came out. Then kinda like working on Rolex watch that's expensive all the components of course will be expensive. Then it appears to be that this watch was only made for one company which presents other challenges like it's going to be difficult to find. Here's a description down below notice your price is better than theirs.

https://www.joseph-watches.com/all-products/breitling-eta-e10-351-new-old-stock-1990s/

then something similar it's not the exact same movement has been discussed before. Notice it's scarce which is what happens when you have a movement that's manufactured for basically one company.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/20912-breitling-aerospace-movement/

notice supposedly there's a substitute movement although somewhere else I saw suggestion that the display wasn't the same?

apparently there is a replacement movement but I'll just attached the PDF as it's not entirely helpful at all and I'm sure the movement is not available. It appears to be based on the pricier movement if you can actually buy a used watch for probably cheaper than the brand-new movement price possibly.

in general a watch quartz watch running backwards only does this if the stator has been damaged or sometimes they can be flipped over. Usually they try to manufacture them differently so when you're putting them back they cannot be flipped over. But basically this controls the direction of the stepper motor rotation. Because I was curious I found the tech sheet for something similar to your watch so we can look at that part and see how it looks as to how easy it could be modified changed whatever

this is the part that's the problem in my guess is that he probably doesn't take very much to knock it out of alignment and in your watch runs backwards.

not finding a suitable picture this is close enough but you have to use your imagination as the shape isn't quite right. this shows how a normal quartz watch works problem is why the shape isn't quite right is that the position where the rotor stops isn't actually a circle like it shows. The reality is where it stops is a little closer to the rotor which is why it stops in a specific place. So if you were to move things a little bit you can then get the stepping motor to go backwards. Or as I once did I did a little bit a filing to change the intro shape so the rotor stops in the different place and of course it goes backwards. But since you're is is an entirely different shape it probably gets distorted by the screws holding the coil in or just about anything and that's where the problem would be. Unfortunately has these are restricted movements there are no parts list cross referencing where we might billow find a replacement components free orders

 

 

 

 

Breitling aerospace watch 0030_11.03.2011_V2_EN.pdf 87.85 kB · 3 downloads ETA_ETA 989.331.pdf 1.23 MB · 3 downloads

That is EXTREMELY helpful and hopeful information! Ill take the movement apart this evening, service, and take a look at the relationship of parts.

3 hours ago, noirrac1j said:

Can you try these? ETA 988.333 or 988.432. Please see the attached and hope this helps.

 

Joe

Breitiling_replacement.pdf 83.71 kB · 4 downloads ETAcal.988.333.pdf 1.57 MB · 5 downloads

Good information for sure and I appreciate it. It feels like it should be repairable because everything else works save the direction of the mechanical parts. We shall see!

[JohnR725]

I was curious about parts cross references so looking at the link below we see the image I have below and another classic problem of movements reserved for specific companies.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?begin=ETA_937.681&end=ETA_&label=CALIBRES_MANUFACTURED_BY_ETA&flag=C

what I was hoping for was or curious about as to whether any of the stator's cross reference to is kinda hoping of maybe it was like a basic it referred to all of them but it's hard to tell. Because that really is the key component in all of this

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=|[[GWGX

 

then I found a better picture of the stator. Unfortunately it doesn't look like yours but it does actually show things in a more correct fashion. you see how the rotor is not actually in the center sort of and why put marks you can see is physically closer to the edge. In other words at rest these are where the north and south poles will be the whole design allows the rotor to turn in the correct fashion unlike yours which is now slightly distorted but as you can see from the spacing with extreme magnification it probably really doesn't take very much to screw that up.

 

 

[PastorChris]

Well, after a service, finding some bit of metal in the gear of the step rotor and reassembly, no joy. 
 

Today I broke out the microscope and what did I find but a broken wire! That will do it every time. I was able to unwind the broken wire a turn and glue it down with some conductive ink. Voila! Back to running properly. 
 

Thanks so much for all of the helpful documentation and advice. It really fueled the fire of my though processes to get this fixed! I might have to wrist test it for a couple of weeks before giving it back to my brother though!