Please help me buy a polishing machine

[VWatchie]

Oops, got this post in the wrong forum. I believe a better place would have been Watch Cleaning Machines / Ultrasonic Cleaners / Case Refinishing. If any moderator can move it I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

Right now I have my eyes set on this machine. The ad says it takes 4" wheels which seems to be the most common wheel size with a plethora of options. However, one of the reviews mentions "best result is achieved with ~70mm discs" without any further explanation and it makes me feel a bit uneasy. It's about $200

Then we have this machine. It too takes 4" wheels, but is less expensive. It has no light and no filter, but it seems to have plenty of room for the discs. I believe the same machine(?) is sold by CousinsUK. It's about $100 with the protective cover. I had this one on order, but for some reason, the transaction failed, so I took that as a sign I should ask for some advice before going ahead.

Next up is this machine from Foredom. It's more expensive than the previous options, but the advantage could be that it takes many accessories which can be bought separately as needed. It's about $300 w/o any cover, filter or accessories. Pricewise, it is a bit painful!

Finally, we have this one-speed polisher with filter and lighting for about $250. It reminds me of one of the polishing machines demonstrated on the Chronoglide YouTube channel.

I am an enthusiast, so I'm not going to spend my days polishing, so I don't want to spend too much, but once in a while, it would be nice to be able to touch up a stainless steel case.

 

Edited January 2 by VWatchie

[HectorLooi]

Your 1st and 4th options have a built-in dust extractor. That is good feature to have.

Don't get the Foredom. It looks like a Chinese made motor that should sell for less than a $100.

[VWatchie]

I just noticed that the yellow wheel in the last picture says "6 x 50". Would that indicate a 6" wheel? That ad never mentions the maximum wheel size... Compared to the measurements of the machine I would guess a 4" wheel. Hmm...

Edited January 2 by VWatchie

[HectorLooi]

Foredom Motor Adjustable Speed Grinding & Polishing Machine included Two Buffing Wheel Jewelry Making Supplies Polishing Motor
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mr847m0

Check out the price of a China Foredom bench lathe.

[tomh207]

I recently got this one,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394806099647

it comes with 2 70mm buffs, not great quality but I am practicing cleaning up tools so not worried for now. I intend on getting the stage 1-4 wheels from cousinsuk when I get onto cases and bracelets. It will quite happily run with 100mm buffs but not bigger. It cost £47 including delivery so cheap and cheerful but for my intended volume it’s very good so far.

 

Tom

[Waggy]

I got this from CousinsUK just after I started watches, for £63.75 you can't go wrong, link here, and I still use it on almost every watch I do and it's still going strong, I use the 4" (100mm) wheels without any issue. Adjustable speed too. I rigged up an enclosure for it (more about protecting the paintwork behind it) from an IKEA storage box and stuck in a shop vac hose in the back (hidden by the paper towel roll!) and a cheap LED USB light strip above it:

Edited January 3 by Waggy

[oldhippy]

I have moved this as requested by VWatchie.

[HectorLooi]

1 hour ago, Waggy said:

I got this from CousinsUK just after I started watches, for £63.75 you can't go wrong, link here, and I still use it on almost every watch I do and it's still going strong, I use the 4" (100mm) wheels without any issue. Adjustable speed too. I rigged up an enclosure for it (more about protecting the paintwork behind it) from an IKEA storage box and stuck in a shop vac hose in the back (hidden by the paper towel roll!) and a cheap LED USB light strip above it:

You could improve it further by cutting a hole in the back of the box and adding a ducted fan to vent to the outside or to a shopvac.

[VWatchie]

I still haven't made up my mind, but I think I'll go with @Waggy's setup. After all, I live in the land where IKEA was invented

What type and diameter of buffing wheels would you recommend?

If there were little or no price differences between the various options I presented I would have gone with the machine I call the "one-speed" polisher in my first post (last picture). I was in touch with the manufacturer (HAJET, China) who informed me that it can take 6" buffing wheels. However, trying to order this machine I realised it would cost me somewhere between $350 and $500 depending on delivery time. Shipping is expensive for such a heavy machine, at least if you don't want to wait for a couple of months.

Anyway, I'm just an enthusiast and I just can't justify spending that much money on a polishing machine. Especially as I'll probably only use it a few times per year.

On 1/3/2024 at 1:05 PM, HectorLooi said:

You could improve it further by cutting a hole in the back of the box and adding a ducted fan to vent to the outside or to a shopvac.

That is a nice idea, and one I would want to try to implement should I get to polish frequently. For starters, I'll be wearing a face mask and some protection for my eyes. I wouldn't be surprised if getting polishing compounds and possibly microscopic pieces of metal into your lungs is a pretty bad idea.

Edited January 4 by VWatchie

[tomh207]

@VWatchie

i decided just to go the cheapest way for the volume and work I am likely to do, it’s not like it’s a lapping machine. More important are the buffs, have a look on cousinsuk there are some good examples of what buff for what purpose and importantly the pastes to use with each. It’s just a spinney thing, what you put onto it is much, much more important as well as how you use it.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, VWatchie said:

After all, I live in the land where IKEA was invented

You've just named my favourite day out

1 hour ago, tomh207 said:

It’s just a spinney thing

Tom

Just a spinney thing !!!.  thats exactly what it is. I now have a motorised parts washer thats also just  a spinney thing.

[Waggy]

9 hours ago, VWatchie said:

What type and diameter of buffing wheels would you recommend?

I stick with the 100mm ones, they present less of a curved surface than the smaller diameter wheels making it less problematic to polish a flat surface - reminds me of a terrible CAD package I had to use where everything was circles, so a straight line was a circle with an infinite radius?!?!.

If I am doing a 100% flat surface then I use a felt wheel (see below), advantage is that you can also use the side of the wheel to polish a large flat area like a case back, for example. If the surface is curved then I use a stiff stitched cloth wheel (see below) at lower speeds so you can slightly push into it and it will deform to the shape of the thing you are polishing and not the other way around.

7 hours ago, tomh207 said:

More important are the buffs, have a look on cousinsuk there are some good examples of what buff for what purpose and importantly the pastes to use with each.

That's where I got my wheels from, the non watch sites like Amazon or Ali Express seem to have only 0.5 or 1 inch thick wheels where as Cousins have the thicker ones which I think are better, and their prices are competitive.

I use two polishing compounds:

My 2 current go-to wheels/mops

For the final polish buffing with the rouge I still use the soft mop that came free with the buffing machine, but now I think about it, it should be replaced.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:05 PM, HectorLooi said:

You could improve it further by cutting a hole in the back of the box and adding a ducted fan to vent to the outside or to a shopvac.

I tried this, there is a hole which is obscured by the white paper roll in the picture where insert the hose of a shop vac. However, I found it didn't remove much dust/debris and was very noisy so the juice wasn't worth the squeeze and the shopvac has now been repurposed. Given that I only spend 10 mins at a time buffing and only do it once or twice a week I thought it safe to carry on like this.

The polishing compounds and wheels were purchased when I was new to watchmaking, so maybe they aren't the best options, but I'm used to them now and they seem to work for me, so I'll continue to use them unless anyone has any better suggestions - always keen to learn and improve

[HectorLooi]

22 minutes ago, Waggy said:

However, I found it didn't remove much dust/debris and was very noisy so the juice wasn't worth the squeeze and the shopvac has now been repurposed.

This is a misconception that many people have. The dust extractor is not expected to remove all dust particle, just the very fine ones that fly around and get into the lungs. The macro particles don't cause any trouble except getting nagged at by the wife. 

[Waggy]

5 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

The dust extractor is not expected to remove all dust particle, just the very fine ones that fly around and get into the lungs.

Thanks for the information - I may try and liberate the shopvac and reinstall it

[VWatchie]

On 1/3/2024 at 10:53 AM, tomh207 said:

I intend on getting the stage 1-4 wheels from cousinsuk when I get onto cases and bracelets.

I suppose this four-stage system is sort of the equivalent of finer and finer sandpaper, right? I wonder if you can skip some stage or some stages. Maybe it's mostly a matter of convenience because you can vary speed, pressure, and type of polishing compound with the same type of polishing wheel/mop and get different results, right?

It is admittedly quite a confusing world for the beginner. To buy a wheel/mop from each stage costs a lot, especially if you go for the wider two-inch wheels and not the cheapest ones.

What seems clear is that you need at least one type of mop for cutting and removing scratches, and one to get the final mirror finish. I've probably spent more than a day reading about the various options and I'm nowhere near feeling confident enough to pull the trigger on what mops/wheels to get.

So I've had suggestions from Waggy, thanks a lot, but what do you other guys say?

Edited January 7 by VWatchie

[tomh207]

@VWatchie I agree it’s not easy. So from my trying to figure it out really 3 levels work fine. Though if you need to do a get rid of deep scratches stage the you do need to do the pre-polish stage, however if you can (the scratches aren’t too deep) go straight to pre-polish and then onto polish. Just be gentle and don’t get too carried away.

 

Tom

[HectorLooi]

A 3 stage polishing process is usually sufficient.

After grinding with silicon carbide, diamond or hand filing, I usually use an abrasive rubber wheel to get a satin finish. I got mine from a hardware store, quite cheap, no brand, no specs. But it works. The closest thing I could find on AliExpress is this.

200*25*18mm Nylon Unitized Polishing Wheel Bench Grinder Tools for Stainless Steel Grinding
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrYAfdO

Then I use a hard felt wheel with a green polishing compound. Again from a hardware store, no brand, no specs. Lasts forever, been using it for at least 10 years.

Finally, I buff it with a muslin wheel mop with a blue compound. You guessed it, hardware store, no name, no specs. 

[VWatchie]

I have now received most of what I ordered from Cousins to start polishing. I'm still missing Kapton tape to mask off already high-polished sections, but it's been ordered and will probably arrive in a few days.

As a first attempt, I only tried to polish the left side of the case which should be mirror-polished.

I ordered three polishing wheels:

• One from the 2nd stage (4" x 2" Aurelia (Calico) 112 fold),
• one from the 3rd stage (4" x 2" Madapolam, 120 fold, UK),
• and one from the 4th stage (4" x 2" Felpato, 60 fold).

I started with grey Dialux along with the wheel from the 2nd stage and got exactly the result advertised on Cousins' site, i.e. all superficial scratch marks were quickly buffed away. However, deeper pits cannot be counted on to disappear. I tried for a long time to polish off some small deep pits but it was hopeless. In the end, I had to get out my wet sandpapers and my mini sanding block, which meant a lot of work. There was so much work that I finally started cramping my fingers. Maybe orange Dialux along with a 1st stage wheel could work to remove some potholes, but I doubt it. Unfortunately, I don't think you can eliminate wet sandpaper from the process. I have ordered a sanding file and a square sandpaper holder from Cousins. Hopefully, that will ease the process. When I had finished sanding, I polished again with grey Dialux and the same 2nd stage wheel.

In the next step, I switched to the 3rd stage wheel along with blue Dialux and got an even nicer finish but not perfect. Still, I think most people would be happy with this finish.

Finally, I switched to the 4th stage wheel along with Polinoxx polishing compound and I think I got a more than acceptable result if not perfect. I don't think my result would be approved by Jaeger-LeCoultre but at least my wife thought it looked very nice, and that's always something! 

I have to say that I benefited a lot from Kalle Slaap's video "How to polish your vintage watches - Part 4 Practical Tips".

Here are some pictures:

Fortunately, the polisher is so small that it fits together with most of the accessories in the same box as it was delivered. Good for me as I don't have a workshop and have to pack the stuff away when I'm done. When I first unpacked the machine, I was sceptical that such a small machine would really work efficiently enough, but that concern was completely put to shame. I have to say it works amazingly well and seems very strong, quiet and efficient, so I'm very happy with my choice of machine. Many thanks for the tip @Waggy 


As you can see, it's a set inspired by Waggy's set (again, many thanks!) It would have been handy if my plastic box had been 15 centimetres wider, but I was impatient and didn't go to IKEA, but instead found this plastic box in a store (Jula) nearby for just £4, so it will do for now. I'm also very happy that I chose the wider two-inch wheels so I can work the way Kalle Slaap suggests in the video I linked.

Here is a picture of the final result, as I said, it is only the left side of the housing that I polished. The rest remains.


Another picture of the final result that better shows the mirror shine. If you look at the right side lug, I missed a particularly deep pit. However, it is now so small that I don't want to start sanding again. When you work with sandpaper, the initial rough scratches from the sandpaper hide many pits that you then don't discover until you get to the finer sandpaper and then you just have to start over. So it's worth noting where the pits are before you start so you have a chance to inspect these places extra carefully before you go ahead with the sanding.


I'm only including this picture because I think it's funny to the extent that you can see part of the red macro lens.

Many thanks to all of you for your input, your pictures and your tips! Incredibly valuable for me and hopefully for many others now and in the future.

Edited January 14 by VWatchie

[Waggy]

Your setup is looking good, i would recommend a light in the box, I got a cheap LED one, it's a big help in checking your work etc.

Here is one that I got, bit there are lots of options out there

[ClaudioCavalli]

If anyone is interested, i found the first buffer in the original post for $169.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/597117275

37 minutes ago, ClaudioCavalli said:

If anyone is interested, i found the first buffer in the original post for $169.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/597117275

At least if you redide in the USA.

[VWatchie]

2 hours ago, ClaudioCavalli said:

If anyone is interested, i found the first buffer in the original post for $169.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/597117275

At least if you redide in the USA.

I believe this setup comes with different types of motors. Some are stronger, some weaker, and I believe that's what's reflected by the price. Anyway, this version may be perfectly good for polishing watch cases so if anyone gets it, please let us know what you think. The dust from the wheels, polishing compounds, and metal is definitely a poisonous cocktail that you don't want in your lungs. Since I have zero ventilation with my setup I use FFP3 classified respiratory protection.

[ClaudioCavalli]

6 hours ago, VWatchie said:

I believe this setup comes with different types of motors. Some are stronger, some weaker, and I believe that's what's reflected by the price. Anyway, this version may be perfectly good for polishing watch cases so if anyone gets it, please let us know what you think. The dust from the wheels, polishing compounds, and metal is definitely a poisonous cocktail that you don't want in your lungs. Since I have zero ventilation with my setup I use FFP3 classified respiratory protection.

Yes, there are different versions.  One is 200w and another 500w.  The one in my link is the 500w version.

[VWatchie]

On 1/15/2024 at 6:38 PM, ClaudioCavalli said:

Yes, there are different versions.  One is 200w and another 500w.  The one in my link is the 500w version.

I sure would have expected it to be the 200w version considering the low price. if I had lived in the US I would not have hesitated to order it. Thanks a lot for the tip anyway!

[mewherman]

I just bought a three-piece polishing kit for a drill at the hardware store and put it in my drill press. Works fine. I use "autosol" metal polish I use for auto-body.