My father's Accurist watch ID ?

[ianrichards]

Good morning.

Fingers crossed you good folks will help me ID my father's Accurist watch.

It's history, long story short is ...

During WW2 my parents (both of whom were already married) had an affair and my mother gave Dad this watch that she bought second hand.

After the war they were both divorced and then remarried in 1952 (they took their time).

The watch was never very reliable despite being serviced at at some time the winder has come detatched.

I'm going to put this watch aside until my skills level is higher, so happy just to look at it and relish what it represents.

Thanks in advance.

Ian

[mikepilk]

Can you see any lettering under the balance?

(BTW There looks to be a lot of flaking radium  from the dial and hands. So read the postings about the precautions you need to take before removing the movement)

[Nucejoe]

Check AS1194 and its variants on Dr ranffts site.  

AS 1194 ranfft

We need a clear photo.

Rgds

 

 

[ianrichards]

  On 12/4/2023 at 12:18 PM, mikepilk said:

Can you see any lettering under the balance?

(BTW There looks to be a lot of flaking radium  from the dial and hands. So read the postings about the precautions you need to take before removing the movement)

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Thanks for that.

All I can see is: 15

  On 12/4/2023 at 1:37 PM, Nucejoe said:

Check AS1194 and its variants on Dr ranffts site.  

AS 1194 ranfft

We need a clear photo.

Rgds

 

 

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Thanks, I've just had a quick look.

I'm afraid that is as clear a photo as I can take with my phone camera

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:27 PM, ianrichards said:

Thanks for that.

All I can see is: 15

Thanks, I've just had a quick look.

I'm afraid that is as clear a photo as I can take with my phone camera

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Check just under the balance wheel for a calibre number. Just had an Accurist As984 come through the post for parts for another watch's restoration. 

[ianrichards]

  On 12/4/2023 at 3:25 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Check just under the balance wheel for a calibre number. Just had an Accurist As984 come through the post for parts for another watch's restoration. 

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When I know what I’m doing I’ll do that !

Going to cut my teeth on a Sekonda pocket watch first !

BTW Is securing the stem tricky ?

This is all a black art to me. 
I seem to remember years ago pulling the winder too much and it came out. 
Thanks

Ian

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 12/4/2023 at 3:31 PM, ianrichards said:

When I know what I’m doing I’ll do that !

Going to cut my teeth on a Sekonda pocket watch first !

BTW Is securing the stem tricky ?

This is all a black art to me. 
I seem to remember years ago pulling the winder too much and it came out. 
Thanks

Ian

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You should be able to see the cal. no. without removing the balance, i will pop you a picture up later, of course there is no guarantee your watch is marked up jn the same way. Of course there is no guarantee with much in watch repair. Securing the stem ? That all depends on why it is not secure Ian, released with undue stress from its position or wrenched using excess force causing untold damage ?  Did i just say that for real

[ianrichards]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:02 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

You should be able to see the cal. no. without removing the balance, i will pop you a picture up later, of course there is no guarantee your watch is marked up jn the same way. Of course there is no guarantee with much in watch repair. Securing the stem ? That all depends on why it is not secure Ian, released with undue stress from its position or wrenched using excess force causing untold damage ?  Did i just say that for real

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Mmmmm !

I seem to remember my father getting the stem mended and it being replaced with one that didn't quite fit.
I think it was always a case of carefully does it.

The stem looks complete and undamaged, I need to learn how it is retained.

Part of the problem is that it doesn't normally secure when reengaging after adjusting the time. The stem seems too short as the crown pushes against the casing.

I live and learn.
Thanks

Ian

Edited December 4, 2023 by ianrichards
Addition text added

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:05 PM, ianrichards said:

Mmmmm !

I seem to remember my father getting the stem mended and it being replaced with one that didn't quite fit.
I think it was always a case of carefully does it.

The stem looks complete and undamaged, I need to learn how it is retained.

Part of the problem is that it doesn't normally secure when reengaging after adjusting the time. The stem seems too short as the crown pushes against the casing.

I live and learn.
Thanks

Ian

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The stem is held in by what is known as a pull out piece, stem release bar and probably a few other names. In turn this bar is held in by a screw on the dial side. It could be that the previous repairer cut the stem short so it is not fully engaging the winding mechanism. Either way you will need to at least partly disassemble to fix it,  it will almost certainly need servicing, might be best waiting until you are more confident.  In the meantime lets identify what you have then you can get searching for a couple of donors to harvest spare parts from that you will need at some point, you then are at least prepared .

[ianrichards]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:34 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

The stem is held in by what is known as a pull out piece, stem release bar and probably a few other names. In turn this bar is held in by a screw on the dial side. It could be that the previous repairer cut the stem short so it is not fully engaging the winding mechanism. Either way you will need to at least partly disassemble to fix it,  it will almost certainly need servicing, might be best waiting until you are more confident.  In the meantime lets identify what you have then you can get searching for a couple of donors to harvest spare parts from that you will need at some point, you then are at least prepared .

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Excellent advice, much appreciated. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:37 PM, ianrichards said:

Excellent advice, much appreciated. 

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No problem, i will pop up a picture of where the cal no might be.

[ianrichards]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:37 PM, ianrichards said:

prepared .

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  On 12/4/2023 at 4:55 PM, ianrichards said:

 

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Thanks for the line drawing of the stem mechanism. I am now studying the pdf file by Wal Odets’ Glossary of watch parts and it’s starting to make sense. I love a challenge. I normally fettle steam engines so this is going to be somewhat “interesting” !

[Nucejoe]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:27 PM, ianrichards said:

I'm afraid that is as clear a photo as I can take with my phone camera

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Resolution is good, insufficient light is the problem.  

Its either a AS or FHF. 

[ianrichards]

  On 12/4/2023 at 5:40 PM, Nucejoe said:

Resolution is good, insufficient light is the problem.  

Its either a AS or FHF. 

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Thanks for that.

I'm using the advanced search function on the DR's database.
A very good way of learning the names of the individual parts and their variations.
No conclusive result yet ... could take a while.

Regards.

Ian

[JohnR725]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:34 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

pull out piece, stem release bar and probably a few other names.

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how do curiosity where did you get that picture from? I don't think I've ever seen the definition of pullout piece.

let's go with a different picture a Swiss picture with bonus numbers? What are those bonus numbers under the old Swiss parts numbering system all the parts had numbers it's a lot easier to put a number on a tiny package than it is to write several dozen words in various languages to describe apart so everything went by a part numbering system. so you're looking at part 443 which like everything else in watch repair is multiple names but the Swiss typically like setting lever.

as you're learning terminology and how watches work how about a tech sheet they typically tell people to start with this watch and will snip out a image from the tech sheets show it shows how the key listen supposed all come together including the setting lever screw. What's interesting with the unified whatever it's called part numbering system screws are almost an afterthought notice the number is much much bigger than the rest of the numbers.

  On 12/4/2023 at 3:31 PM, ianrichards said:

BTW Is securing the stem tricky ?

This is all a black art to me. 
I seem to remember years ago pulling the winder too much and it came out.

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unfortunately as others are telling you it would help if you took the movement out of the case and took the dialogue so we can look at the keyless parts. The other reason for moving the dial is it helps to identify the watch and often times on older watches the identification numbers are found on the dial side not under the balance wheel as they typically found today

so normally your stem will not come out it's held in with the setting lever held down by the setting lever screw at least I assume that's what it's called an too lazy to look in the parts lists see what it's actually called. But a number of things can interfere with this like the screw comes unscrew the lever comes up the stem comes out. Or if you're really enthusiastic new poll hard enough you'll break something. Or rust if rust is gotten in there that will cause issues. another issue with windup watches wristwatches in particular is that the place where the stem goes into the main plate can actually wear out and open up. I've seen where for some watches they make what are called oversize stems from the stem is physically bigger to compensate for  that. But unfortunately everything is speculation until the dial comes off into a proper examination

then is looking at your photographs and notice how the movements not falling out? The screws holding the movement in her pulling the movement back against what exactly? Notice how the dial side appears to be much bigger than the backside? What I can't tell is whether the movement is attached to a movement ring and that means the entire movement ring comes out or whether your watch will go out the front of the case shall have to remove the crystal just can't tell from the pictures

the other thing which I'm not seeing in the discussion may be a just didn't read the fine print is approximately what do you think the diameter of the movement is? Because the problem with photographs are I can't tell if this is a little tiny ladies watch your bigger watch so we need a diameter size

ETA 6497-2 Technical Communication.pdfFetching info...

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 12/4/2023 at 5:52 PM, ianrichards said:

Thanks for that.

I'm using the advanced search function on the DR's database.
A very good way of learning the names of the individual parts and their variations.
No conclusive result yet ... could take a while.

Regards.

Ian

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There is another way and the watch is old enough to use that way, you will have to disassemble it though.

  On 12/4/2023 at 5:54 PM, JohnR725 said:

how do curiosity where did you get that picture from? I don't think I've ever seen the definition of pullout piece.

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Its a name that De carle used, its a bit vague to be honest.

[ianrichards]

Phew, lot's to digest.
I'll print out the Technical Communication file and digest as bedtime reading.

Thanks.

Ian

[watchweasol]

Hi Ian  find below some Horological literature just to get you started.  Some of it will be over your head but there is a lot of useful material for your interest.

witschi_training_course.pdfFetching info... Joseph Bulova School of Watch Making.pdfFetching info... TZIllustratedGlossary.pdfFetching info...

h

TM9-1575-War-Department-Technical-Manual.pdfFetching info...

[JohnR725]

  On 12/4/2023 at 5:56 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

De carle used, its a bit vague to be honest.

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even though I have several of his books I think of the best if you didn't reference the nomenclature anymore other then to have a laugh. Because I don't think I've ever seen references to the terms he is using. Plus if you look at the picture just before what exactly does he call the plates screws? this is why I think it's best to go with the Swiss terminology it forms somewhat of a standard perhaps.

 

  On 12/4/2023 at 6:00 PM, ianrichards said:

Phew, lot's to digest.

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yes one of the minor problems of watch repair knowledge actually is required if you're to be successful. Which means you should do some studying.

  On 12/4/2023 at 1:37 PM, Nucejoe said:

AS 1194 ranfft

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out of curiosity why did we rule out 1194?

then from the images on the website at the link below it also shows why taken the dial off is good because often times as it shows in the picture they mark the movement number on the dial side plus the amusement with this watch it actually exists in two different sizes and away

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&AS_1194

 

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

I think following the TZ illustrated glossary's nomenclature is the "lingua franca" of the watch community. 

[ianrichards]

  On 12/4/2023 at 7:23 PM, JohnR725 said:

even though I have several of his books I think of the best if you didn't reference the nomenclature anymore other then to have a laugh. Because I don't think I've ever seen references to the terms he is using. Plus if you look at the picture just before what exactly does he call the plates screws? this is why I think it's best to go with the Swiss terminology it forms somewhat of a standard perhaps.

 

yes one of the minor problems of watch repair knowledge actually is required if you're to be successful. Which means you should do some studying.

out of curiosity why did we rule out 1194?

then from the images on the website at the link below it also shows why taken the dial off is good because often times as it shows in the picture they mark the movement number on the dial side plus the amusement with this watch it actually exists in two different sizes and away

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&AS_1194

 

 

 

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Well, bearing in mind that I know nothing, I’ve put an arrow on what I’ve noticed is different. Is this relevant ?

[RichardHarris123]

Relevant?  Yes.  The Ranfft has a removable end cap jewel for the escape wheel but also a a shock system on the balance "incabloc ", no shock on yours. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 12/4/2023 at 7:39 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I think following the TZ illustrated glossary's nomenclature is the "lingua franca" of the watch community. 

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Haha the TZ glossary has it labelled as both a set lever and a pull out piece.

[RichardHarris123]

  On 12/4/2023 at 8:41 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha the TZ glossary has it labelled as both a set lever and a pull out piece.

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Correct, just checked.  Maybe we should stick to the Swiss definition. 

Maybe we should have a new thread on nomenclature?

[Nucejoe]

  On 12/4/2023 at 5:52 PM, ianrichards said:

No conclusive result yet ... could take a while.

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The keyless is idenitification card of movements.

Aparently your watch needs a full disassembly, good clean and lube, so you will eventually get to the keyless.

Then we'll have to see why set lever doesn't lock onto the stem as the stem sometimes comes out.