Help with trouble shooting

[Nilbobaggins]

Hello,

I am fairly new to watchrepair, having successfully ”repaired” 5-6 watches. I am currently working on a faulty Girard Perregaux Gyromatic and ran into a broken balance for the first time. I ordered a new one (complete balance) but probably didn’t install it perfectly. 
Does any one know just by the chaos of the timegrapher what the problem could be?

thanks in advance

:)

[ManSkirtBrew]

I am also fairly new, but I'll take a stab based on the experience I have. This is the checklist I'd go over if it were on my bench:

• Demagnetize
• Check the impulse jewel for chips and whether it's loose
• Check end shake on the balance jewels (low amplitude)
• Check to see if the balance runs true (doesn't wobble when looking from the side) and isn't contacting anything
• Check that the hairspring is seated properly, is in a parallel and flat plane to the balance wheel, and is not contacting anything

And then go from there. Keep us posted!

[watchweasol]

Hi the list proposed by manskirtbrew is a good comprehensive list to start with, follow that .

Pictures of the movement would be appreciated.

[Nilbobaggins]

I did some minor adjustments which at least made the readings less chaotic. However, it still needs some work. Thanks for the tips, I will continue troubleshooting

I attached a picture of the movement. 
:)

I have now tried to demagnetize the watch, but with no real success.. I will contiue to look for problems

if anyone has any other tips, please let me know. Is it worth it to tackle the beat error? Or should I focus finding the other problem/problems first?

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

Hi the list proposed by manskirtbrew is a good comprehensive list to start with, follow that .

Pictures of the movement would be appreciated.

I agree with the above. Close up pics of the balance at rest, from the top and side would be useful. 

[Nucejoe]

Can we see a graph when sweep pinion is removed ?

 

 

[Nilbobaggins]

I will attachb some photos/videos which hopefully could help (including timegrapher without the sweep):

 

[Nucejoe]

Regulator arm seems not fully snapped in place.

 

[RichardHarris123]

6 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Regulator arm seems not fully snapped in place.

 

What effect will that have? 

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Regulator arm seems not fully snapped in place.

Well spotted @Nucejoe

You can see it not seated properly at the arrow.

As a result the hairspring does not sit between the regulator pins correctly. In the bottom pic you can see the hairspring going all the way through the pins, where it should be hidden by the boot for a portion

 

 

 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What effect will that have? 

Wouldn't make regulating more precise, makes a mess of pin-boot slot.

 The oscilator seems out of beat. 

Farnkly this watch needs all adjustments listed by girls skirt brew unless your are Irish. lol

Rgds

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

Thanks @mikepilkand @Nucejoe, I can see now and pretty obvious once pointed out.  Hehe. 

[Nilbobaggins]

Thank you guys!

I thought it looked weird on my original inspection, but as I bought the complete balance and cock NOS I didn't give it to much thought.

I assume that I will have to disassemble the regulator completely?

I will try to do it later this afternoon, I'll keep you posted!

Thank you once, again.

[nevenbekriev]

1 hour ago, Nilbobaggins said:

... but as I bought the complete balance and cock NOS I didn't give it to much thought.

I assume that I will have to disassemble the regulator completely?...
 

 

No, just put the cock balance up on a flat surface, lift the balance alittle and hold it above the cock,then press the cock so the regulator will 'click' on it's place.

The whole thing is 'NOS', does it mean that You didn't dissassemble the incablok and clean/oil the bearings in the setting?

Another thing - it is not so right to replace the cock, especially if the original one is present. The correct thing is to replace only the balance assembly. If replacing the cock, must be checked if the balance stays upright and if the axial free play is correct.

[Nilbobaggins]

9 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

No, just put the cock balance up on a flat surface, lift the balance alittle and hold it above the cock,then press the cock so the regulator will 'click' on it's place.

The whole thing is 'NOS', does it mean that You didn't dissassemble the incablok and clean/oil the bearings in the setting?

Another thing - it is not so right to replace the cock, especially if the original one is present. The correct thing is to replace only the balance assembly. If replacing the cock, must be checked if the balance stays upright and if the axial free play is correct.

Okay, thank you for the advice!

The original cock was raided/destroyed so it was unusable sadly. However everything seems to line up "correctly", and Yes - I oiled and cleaned the cap-jewels.

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, Nilbobaggins said:

I assume that I will have to disassemble the regulator completely?

Whatever approach  you see as less risky and  feel more control over the task is right for you.

Regulator arm is made of spring and snapps back in place. 

Rgds

[Nilbobaggins]

Update: I fixed the regulator arm and the readings looks somewhat better.
However, I noticed something wierd: when I film the balance in slow motion the amplitude looks to be around 270° instead of the suggested ~140° from the timegrapher. I have only googled the lift angle (52°), but perhaps it could be a clue to what is wrong?

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

11 minutes ago, Nilbobaggins said:

when I film the balance in slow motion the amplitude looks to be around 270° instead of the suggested ~140° from the timegrapher

Just in case you have the same confusion I did for a long time: amplitude is measured as the rotation in each direction from the rest position of the balance.

So if you're seeing a total rotation of a running balance go 270 degrees in one direction then 270 degrees in the other, that's actually 135 degrees of amplitude, since it is measured from the center rest position of the balance.

[Nilbobaggins]

Ah, then it makes sense haha

rookie mistake

[Nucejoe]

 You can  post a top view vid of the oscilator running on  youtube and gives  us its link here. Side view of the coil be nice too.

 

[Nilbobaggins]

11 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 You can  post a top view vid of the oscilator running on  youtube and gives  us its link here. Side view of the coil be nice too.

 

Sure:

Let me know if I should record anything else
 

[mikepilk]

4 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

Just in case you have the same confusion I did for a long time: amplitude is measured as the rotation in each direction from the rest position of the balance.

So if you're seeing a total rotation of a running balance go 270 degrees in one direction then 270 degrees in the other, that's actually 135 degrees of amplitude, since it is measured from the center rest position of the balance.

No, 270° amplitude is 270° one way from the rest position, then 270° the other direction.

[Nucejoe]

 That amplitude is good, and it wil do,  providing sweep second wont eat much of this amplitude.

Rgds

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

No, 270° amplitude is 270° one way from the rest position, then 270° the other direction.

Yes, this is what I was saying, just differently.

If he's seeing 270 degrees of rotation from stop to stop, that's 135 degrees of amplitude, which matches what he's seeing on the timegrapher. The video he posted bears that out as well.

 

Edit for clarity: because the rest position should be halfway between the extremes.

Edited November 14, 2023 by ManSkirtBrew

[Nucejoe]

3 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

The video he posted bears that out as well.

 

Is it a vid or jif ?