Tissot 783, several questions

[Knebo]

Hello everyone, 

I just started working on a Tissot 783 (inside a Seastar Automatic from the 1960s).

I really like the direct centre seconds construction, avoiding those annoying seconds pinion springs. Overall, I must say, nice movement! 

I'm wondering about two things:

1. The mainspring barrel is engraved with "do not open, greaseless". I noticed, before opening, that manual winding effectively wound the movement (getting to very good amplitude despite the last service being 10 years ago) BUT I could not hear any slipping of the mainspring. No sounds whatsoever. Just smooth winding sounds. Now, I have three options for the service:

A) Just reuse the old barrel complete without opening it. 

B) Order a NOS barrel complete (but noting that this is probably several decades old). Price is reasonable at 35 USD. 

C) Open the barrel anyway, replace the mainspring with a new one (GR2922X) and use breaking grease as usual. 

 

2. Any advice or technical sheet available on how to lubricate the automatic works? 

3. Do you know whether there should be a dial washer? There was none. 

 

[mikepilk]

I would choose a new option "D" - open the barrel, clean and inspect the mainspring. There's a good chance it's OK to re-use. 

[Waggy]

I would be careful, I think i opened a Tissot barrel like this but the barrel was crimped over the cap to secure it in place, so when I came to put it back together it wouldn't snap in place like a regular barrel. Cost me more than I paid for the watch for a new barrel and mainspring set.

Have a very close look under magnification to see if you have a crimped barrel design. If in doubt leave it well alone.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Waggy

[JohnR725]

41 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Any advice or technical sheet available on how to lubricate the automatic works? 

If you looked at cousins website will get a parts list. Looking at the usual sources there appears to be no PDFs. Then I'm going to embrace your question exactly to the wording because? For one thing is my bedtime I'm going to bed In a few minutes and I really hate scanning technical documents. Fortunately you restricted your answer to a narrow section as opposed to a generic is there any servicing information for the entire watch?

So for instance suppose you had a notebook filled with technical documentation for this brand and unfortunately when you open it up the first thing you see is 781 through 784. Eight pages called service technique number 23 and is a useful not really not really at all. Basically each page covers the evolution so the 781 is the basic. Then each page is the next caliber of what's added zero references to lubrication though which is interesting and then finally we get to 783 and for that I will scan the page in see how helpful it is not.

 

Now this should be the end of the story because it's now my bedtime and I really despise scanning documents. I find scanning documents more tedious than watch repair works I worry about getting all the pages now we can something really peculiar norm way to get a technical document the pages are all stapled together which makes him a pain in the ass to scan but they're all stapled together but I had to look the next section notebook is identical title I almost thought I had a duplicate technical sheets but alas I did not

 

I'll reevaluate how much I despise scanning and probably scanned the last two for you tomorrow. So what does this version of four pages consist of the exact same watches no pictures at all that relies on the pictures from the previous document it talks about all the nifty features of each of the versions and then it gets to lubrication fortunately didn't ask about that for the various watches because basically you get stuck with the whole document because your watch the 783 is based on the earlier versions they need all of this for the lubrication then for the 783 it does get to the disassembly reassembly and that covers two pages plus lubrication

then same title but now number 30 modifications on calibers 782, 783 and 784. Looks like unfortunately I get stuck scanning address all go? I suppose it depends upon something? Looks like technically I don't have to scan because it's based on the serial number in your serial number is way too low so later on they did modifications

I'll reevaluate my despising of scanning of documentation tomorrow providing I go to bed and get some sleep.. Then no it does not cover the barrel because of course it's a sealed barrel personally I'd be tempted to it seems to function I would almost be tempted to try something. It was her brand-new clean sealed up barrel which it is kind of take some of the HP 1300 and lubricate the arbor without disassembly and leave it as it is pretend it's a brand-new barrel. But I would go I had an order a replacement barrel if you can get it just in case or just in case you decide to disassemble any have issues you would have a replacement barrel. Some of the sealed barrels this one doesn't look like that but some of them are sealed up in such a way that they can not be disassembled or reassembled so it's always nice to have a spare just in case

 

 

 

 

 

[Knebo]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

I would choose a new option "D" - open the barrel, clean and inspect the mainspring. There's a good chance it's OK to re-use

Thanks for that added input to my decision fatigue . I don't have a mainspring winder, so I never really follow that approach. 

 

59 minutes ago, Waggy said:

I would be careful, I think i opened a Tissot barrel like this but the barrel was crimped over the cap to secure it in place, so when I came to put it back together it wouldn't snap in place like a regular barrel. Cost me more than I paid for the watch for a new barrel and mainspring set.

I agree. I won't take that risk unless I have an NOS barrel complete already lined up.

 

I am thinking that I should go with the NOS barrel. Since it says "greaseless", I won't have to worry about old oil/grease, right? I can get one for 30 USD (incl shipping) in the sealed original Tissot packaging.

 

 

37 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I find scanning documents more tedious than watch repair works

Ohhh, I completely agree, it's the worst!!! 

 

37 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

If you looked at cousins website will get a parts list.

I did obtain that already.

 

38 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Eight pages called service technique number 23 and is a useful not really not really at all. Basically each page covers the evolution so the 781 is the basic.

I also managed to find this doc on the internet.

 

39 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

covers two pages plus lubrication

I'd be very grateful for just the pages on lubrication (particularly the automatic works)... I know it's super annoying to scan, sorry. But I'd be very happy and grateful. 

[mikepilk]

5 minutes ago, Knebo said:

I am thinking that I should go with the NOS barrel. Since it says "greaseless", I won't have to worry about old oil/grease, right? I can get one for 30 USD (incl shipping) in the sealed original Tissot packaging.

That's the easy option. You just don't know how old the grease is.

[Knebo]

34 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

You just don't know how old the grease is.

It's supposed to be "greaseless". Or does that not mean what it says? 

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, Knebo said:

I am thinking that I should go with the NOS barrel. Since it says "greaseless", I won't have to worry about old oil/grease, right? I can get one for 30 USD (incl shipping) in the sealed original Tissot packaging.

5 hours ago, mikepilk said:

That's the easy option. You just don't know how old the grease is.

Normally if this wasn't an automatic barrel it wouldn't be a problem at all. So basically the only grease is found for the breaking feature and if the watch seems to wind up runs 24 hours seems to have reasonable amplitude then? As this is a personal watch versus you're doing a commercial watch we could assume it's fine if it started being a problem well then you'd have to replace it. With then the problem also being despair conceivably might have the same problem. If you are doing this for a customer who paid a lot of money or paid any money at all then well I'll watchmakers who won't even touch a watch unless I can change the mainspring.

Here's a reference to what Omega does with brand-new barrels. I will assume because the two companies are related that it's probably a similar thing other than the breaking grease there is no lubrication in the mainspring barrel at all and its package dry basically so I lubrication needed is on the arbor like shown in the image below

Although at the time this watch was made the didn't have the HP oil.

 

5 hours ago, Knebo said:

'd be very grateful for just the pages on lubrication (particularly the automatic works)... I know it's super annoying to scan, sorry. But I'd be very happy and grateful.

What I really find frustrating is if I scanned something of lots of pages I get upset if I miss one and then I have to start over again. I was looking at a PDF the other day from one of the watch companies where obviously they scanned something. Just can't remember which document it was so is looking at the properties and it actually told the scanner they used. So I googled it and it was a very expensive scanner with sheet feeder. So I think basically what they did they dissected their pages in the separate pages remove the staples sliced them apart whatever and then fed up through the sheet feeder what a nice concept.

Very likely not this morning but sometime in the next 24 hours I will scanned in the relevant documentation. I do find though it is a peculiar document because it's into separate physical sections as opposed to normal it would've all been one document.

[Knebo]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

So basically the only grease is found for the breaking feature

Is it at all possible that the "Greaseless - Do not open" barrel doesn't have breaking grease and that the slipping of the mainspring is achieved differently/without grease? 

If there is breaking grease, I'd have my doubts about purchasing a 50+ year old barrel complete where the breaking grease has probably deteriorated. 

Amplitude was good (270, dial up) at full manual wind. But I didn't test power reserve. 

I want to treat the watches "professionally" and therefore I feel that I must change the mainspring. 

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Very likely not this morning but sometime in the next 24 hours I will scanned in the relevant documentation

Thanks already! 

 

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Here's a reference to what Omega does with brand-new barrels.

Yes, that seems obvious to me. But I doubt that these working instructions are for 50+ year old NOS barrels.. 

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

I want to treat the watches "professionally" and therefore I feel that I must change the mainspring. 

As JohnR725 says, if it's a watch for a customer, fit a new mainspring. I used to as a matter of course. But after reading some comments from NickelSilver (who said he usually uses the old spring), I now only fit a new mainspring if the old one is badly set or broken.

[Knebo]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

As JohnR725 says, if it's a watch for a customer, fit a new mainspring.

Maybe I wasn't clear. There's no question here: I want to change the mainspring, I always do. BUT I was utterly confused by the "Greaseless - Do not open" inscription on the barrel. I took it literally. Particularly, I was seriously wondering if there was no breaking grease?!? I thought that, maybe, this was a very special type of mainspring or barrel. 

Well, since I knew that a NOS barrel complete could be had at an acceptable price... I went ahead and opened the barrel. And it looks like any other barrel+mainspring I've seen. Also no difficulty in opening it. A picture is below. 

I shall proceed as usual. Get the appropriate GR generic mainspring (GR2922X) and apply breaking grease to the barrel wall. (and of course HP1300 to the arbor like John's picture shows).

After all that "drama", I really wonder why Tissot would write this on the barrel. Only a money making move? 

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

Maybe I wasn't clear. There's no question here: I want to change the mainspring, I always do. 

Good for you. But that looks a perfectly good spring to me. I've had new springs that didn't looks so good. Can you send me all your "old" mainsprings please 

[RichardHarris123]

4 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Good for you. But that looks a perfectly good spring to me. I've had new springs that didn't looks so good. Can you send me all your "old" mainsprings please 

I have to agree, the spring looks in excellent condition. 

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Knebo said:

(and of course HP1300 to the arbor like John's picture shows).

Now that it's a part I would use 9504 on the arbor as opposed to the HP lubricant. That's only what they do for new old stock barrels that aren't opened up although even if there opened up that's what Swatch group uses. But if you're going to follow Swatch group's recommendation and you disassemble it at your now supposed to epilam various aspects of the barrel to keep the HP oil from running over inside.

Then yes you could use the old mainspring.s that was the purpose of the particular working instruction was on recycling the barrel's of everything looked perfect they just recommend wiping the spring down and putting it back in with breaking grease. But they also clean the barrel and put epilam on it. But personally I prefer a grease on the arbor which is why I use 9504

4 hours ago, Knebo said:

Tissot would write this on the barrel. Only a money making move? 

There may be a concern over watchmakers who do not understand what breaking grease is. Then I doubt it's really for money making because they don't really make money on spare parts They make money on selling complete watches. 

 

[JohnR725]

What I did to make it easier to keep track of things I is put both 23's in one document. After all there should have been in one document I'm not sure why they were into. So you just have to remember that the lubrication is in the back section. Then the modification document which I do not think applies to yours is it's a later version is in its own separate document.

Then the annoying thing with their documentation is And I've seen it done with another company is they're not arranged numerically in the physical book but there arranged by the numbers like 23 is at the beginning of the book. With earlier watch calibers coming later on. Whereas the other company I was thinking of one of Somewhere there is the index page which basically indexes all the calibers and then tells you which technical bulletin it's in.

 

Tissot Service Technique No 30 Modifications on Calibers 782 783 784.PDF Tissot Service Technique No 23 781 782 783 784.PDF

[Knebo]

Amazing, thanks @JohnR725!

Interesting that they suggest using "Moebius grease" on the studs of the reduction wheel and reverser connecting wheel. I'd have used HP 1300 (but with Epilame).

 

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Now that it's a part I would use 9504 on the arbor as opposed to the HP lubricant. That's only what they do for new old stock barrels that aren't opened up although even if there opened up that's what Swatch group uses. But if you're going to follow Swatch group's recommendation and you disassemble it at your now supposed to epilam various aspects of the barrel to keep the HP oil from running over inside.

Interesting. Thanks for the advice!

 

8 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I have to agree, the spring looks in excellent condition. 

It's true. Looks really good. But as I said, I don't have a mainspring winder. And while I have indeed hand-wound mainsprings into barrels before, I won't do it anymore. While the spring may be fine before, the risk of distorting it and, even more so, contaminating it with dust is too high.

 

8 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Can you send me all your "old" mainsprings please

Hahaha, I would! I don't have many, though. Once I have accumulated a significant amount, I'll let you know.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Knebo
corrected typos

[JohnR725]

27 minutes ago, Knebo said:

"Moebius grease"

One of the minor little problems is which Grease?

27 minutes ago, Knebo said:

It's true. Looks really good. But as I said, I don't have a mainspring winder. And while I have indeed hand-wound mainsprings into barrels before, I won't do it anymore. While the spring may be fine before, the risk of distorting it and, even more so, contaminating it with dust is too high.

Thinking about Tools watch tools Aren't you in a country where they allegedly make watches? The reason I bring this up is if they make watches allegedly it stands to reason that there might be shops lurking here and there selling used horological tools? At least much more likely they are then other parts of the planet where they don't make watches?

8 hours ago, mikepilk said:

But that looks a perfectly good spring to me. I've had new springs that didn't looks so good. Can you send me all your "old" mainsprings please 

When I deal with pocket watch spring is I've seen spring is coming out of the barrel that looked beautiful. In fact I just put a spring back in Illinois that came out of the watch because it looked perfect. Versus brand-new Springs that have looked worse and the other day I regret not getting a picture a brand-new spring which I have to take out of the ring is because I have to use a mainspring winder put them in to get the end stop book. This brand-new spring basically had the curvature for the Armature and it went off basically straight it had no curvature at all and that just didn't quite seem right but it's what I had and the watch seemed to work. So yes there does seem to be a lot of variation in the curvature of new springs from beautiful back occurs which should produce a really nice long linear power to others that have no back curve at all or any other curve

Then what Omega recommends in a working instruction versus the service center where they just throw everything away. Okay they don't actually throw it away they return it to the customer. One of my friends took his coaxial escapement watch in and when he got it back he showed me the picture of the parts there was a mainspring barrel had been disassembled some spring was out and you could see it. Although a friend who worked in the service center is sometimes apparently they were just randomly put mainspring barrels in when they sent them back they were entirely well the had leftover parts that they didn't use and they would return them to the customers not necessarily the right customer which I found amusing. So know we cannot go and raid the trashcan and get all this wonderful stuff. Oh and that would include the epilam I did inquire about that. Now with the modern cleaning machines that do really nice jobs of cleaning they basically epilam every single watch it's in the final rinse stage. Only a couple of components are removed everything goes through and they go through this stuff in huge quantities. Unfortunately when they dump it out it's all mixed together in other words the will cleaner the epilam and while it was a thought

So you're looking for working instruction 67 which doesn't exist in the wild but let's see if I can easily snip out a few images. Easily stepping was not exactly I had to work really hard as I did not feel like taking time the airbrushed out the corners. Plus somewhere I think down below I mentioned I skipped over the section of breaking grease as I know I've snipped out images and their lurking somewhere else on the message board.

 

Amusement in all the things you look for because based on some of these images none of the pocket watches or most of them should I be reusing the mainspring barrel. But fortunately for Omega other talking about relatively modern wristwatches the barrel should be fine.

Yes I've seen the reference to not using solvents at all of course they don't say why. I will do it occasionally when I'm cleaning new old stock mainsprings that seem to have something sticky on them or reusing a new spring which was previously lubricated with something. Notice how they don't use lubrication on the spring at all.

Oh and then notice on the cleaning the reference to epilam. This is one of the reasons you can use the HP oils I think any time I've seen a reference to the HP oils they do have a habit of spreading over the place despite with their technical sheet says so you have to use epilam.

Oh and you will note I'm skipping several images because they're lurking somewhere else on the message board. Hours I skipped over the section of how to apply the breaking grease B is as I said it's been covered somewhere before. And then the real purpose of this was to show you that yes you really can reuse a mainspring as long as everything is reasonably perfect.

 

 

 

[mikepilk]

17 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Yes I've seen the reference to not using solvents at all of course they don't say why. I will do it occasionally when I'm cleaning new old stock mainsprings that seem to have something sticky on them or reusing a new spring which was previously lubricated with something. Notice how they don't use lubrication on the spring at all.

Interesting stuff John. Are they the only ones to recommend cleaning the mainspring with just a dry cloth?

Most Youtube vids I watch, it goes through the cleaning machine. I pull the mainspring through a Lens Wipe (a soft cloth with IPA) or if really dirty I use some naphtha first. Then I always smear with a little 8200 grease.

[Knebo]

20 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

One of the minor little problems is which Grease?

Indeed! I only have 9504 (and 9415).

 

21 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Thinking about Tools watch tools Aren't you in a country where they allegedly make watches? The reason I bring this up is if they make watches allegedly it stands to reason that there might be shops lurking here and there selling used horological tools? At least much more likely they are then other parts of the planet where they don't make watches?

9 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Hahaha, true! Really much less than you'd think. And they tend to be quite expensive. That's the other thing about Switzerland. A pizza will cost 25 USD. Be sure that used watchmaking tools aren't cheap. And then there is demand for it here -- so sellers can also get higher prices. 

 

27 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Then what Omega recommends in a working instruction versus the service center where they just throw everything away. Okay they don't actually throw it away they return it to the customer. One of my friends took his coaxial escapement watch in and when he got it back he showed me the picture of the parts there was a mainspring barrel had been disassembled some spring was out and you could see it. Although a friend who worked in the service center is sometimes apparently they were just randomly put mainspring barrels in when they sent them back they were entirely well the had leftover parts that they didn't use and they would return them to the customers not necessarily the right customer which I found amusing. So know we cannot go and raid the trashcan and get all this wonderful stuff. Oh and that would include the epilam I did inquire about that. Now with the modern cleaning machines that do really nice jobs of cleaning they basically epilam every single watch it's in the final rinse stage. Only a couple of components are removed everything goes through and they go through this stuff in huge quantities. Unfortunately when they dump it out it's all mixed together in other words the will cleaner the epilam and while it was a thought

So you're looking for working instruction 67 which doesn't exist in the wild but let's see if I can easily snip out a few images. Easily stepping was not exactly I had to work really hard as I did not feel like taking time the airbrushed out the corners. Plus somewhere I think down below I mentioned I skipped over the section of breaking grease as I know I've snipped out images and their lurking somewhere else on the message board.

 

Amusement in all the things you look for because based on some of these images none of the pocket watches or most of them should I be reusing the mainspring barrel. But fortunately for Omega other talking about relatively modern wristwatches the barrel should be fine.

Yes I've seen the reference to not using solvents at all of course they don't say why. I will do it occasionally when I'm cleaning new old stock mainsprings that seem to have something sticky on them or reusing a new spring which was previously lubricated with something. Notice how they don't use lubrication on the spring at all.

Oh and then notice on the cleaning the reference to epilam. This is one of the reasons you can use the HP oils I think any time I've seen a reference to the HP oils they do have a habit of spreading over the place despite with their technical sheet says so you have to use epilam.

Oh and you will note I'm skipping several images because they're lurking somewhere else on the message board. Hours I skipped over the section of how to apply the breaking grease B is as I said it's been covered somewhere before. And then the real purpose of this was to show you that yes you really can reuse a mainspring as long as everything is reasonably perfect.

Ahhh, I love when you post from these working instructions. A lot of obvious stuff, but here and there I learn something new!

[JohnR725]

6 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Are they the only ones to recommend cleaning the mainspring with just a dry cloth?

I was trying a member where I found another reference and is amazing the image is lurking in my computer. Leaders the reference now this would also be Omega in the late  50s. But at least here we get a reference as to why they should not be cleaned.

So typically I have reusing a spring I will wipe off whatever's there. On rare occasions I've use the hairspring risks but I'm not fond of it especially on the blued steel Springs the new old stock. The reason I'm not fond of the hairspring rinse on blued steel Springs is an Elgin documentation on mainspring is they made the remark that the blued steel Springs shatter because of basically people touching of them and you get rust. So my concern with insolvent on a blue spring is it will be to clean so I like to get lubrication on it as fast as possible so it can't form any form arrest and I try very hard not to touch the spring at all. I'm less concerned with the white Springs.

Then there is the other strange little thing that relates to why they're not cleaned

So in the 50s document you are wiping off lubrication which implies there lubricated. In the much newer document I think that was a 2020 document they just wiping the dry spring because there is no lubrication are all. Then in the packaging or upon the packaging the reference to invisible lubrication Teflon perhaps doesn't say that though I think the sort of a they're implying that the metal itself doesn't need lubrication it will slide on itself. Then somewhere I believe once again it's Omega but I don't think I snipped it out there was a reference that they may have used a liquid lubrication originally an extremely fine film of it which of course gets wiped off with your wiping off the spring

Then we are in school they teach you how to lubricate the mainspring. Usually some bright students will ask why do we lubricate the mainspring when they are free lubricated or self lubricated and I don't quite remember what the answer was. Sometimes it's best not to ask teachers why were being taught things that seem obvious that we do not need to know this. Then yes even in the schools today they  still teach them to lubricate their mainsprings. In fact they teach a very specific way using I believe they use 9501 as I would prefer or usually use 8200 although I would be happy if that was some sort of 9000 number as all the 8000 lubricants have organic or mineral properties are not pure synthetic.

21 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Most Youtube vids I watch, it goes through the cleaning machine.

Yes I know secret Police will come and take me away and reeducate me for daring to say this but just because somebody has a YouTube channel does not mean they actually know what they're doing.

17 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Hahaha, true! Really much less than you'd think. And they tend to be quite expensive. That's the other thing about Switzerland. A pizza will cost 25 USD. Be sure that used watchmaking tools aren't cheap. And then there is demand for it here -- so sellers can also get higher prices.

The reason why bring up the used tools is when I was going to school in Switzerland we did find shops that sold used tools and the price was reasonable. Maybe @nickelsilver Good point you in the direction of some of the shops that have good prices on used tools.

20 minutes ago, Knebo said:

That's the other thing about Switzerland. A pizza will cost 25 USD.

Yes is not an inexpensive country. I was looking at some travel shows on YouTube that went to Switzerland and I think every single one of them comment that Switzerland is one of the most expensive countries in Europe. Not sure if it's the most expensive but is definitely one way up on the list. But used tools in smaller cities may be cheaper than if your purchase Them and basically big city shops perhaps. For instance if you went to an antique shop anywhere that had some vintage tool especially if it looked nice it doesn't matter what country are planning Huron it's going to be extremely expensive because it looks nifty and they're not going to care that it has some practical purpose they're just going by it looks nifty and it should be extremely expensive.

[Knebo]

28 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

The reason why bring up the used tools is when I was going to school in Switzerland we did find shops that sold used tools and the price was reasonable. Maybe @nickelsilver Good point you in the direction of some of the shops that have good prices on used tools.

I'd certainly appreciate that from @nickelsilver! Googling for shops in Geneva was not very successful.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Knebo

[nickelsilver]

The only place I know of is Horlogerie Herrli in Bienne. They don't have a website, and the owner is looking to sell it so not sure how long they will be around (depends on if the buyer keeps it going). The owner is the second owner already. Huge inventory of spare parts as well as tools.

 

https://www.madeinbienne.ch/herrli/

 

Otherwise I buy lots of stuff off Ricardo. Up till a few years ago there was another guy in Bienne who would do two sales per year of watch tools and parts, it was awesome. He would spend all the time in between going around buying up stuff, then rent a huge room and fill it with like 200 banana boxes of gear and open the doors to 200 raving watchmakers.

[Knebo]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:12 AM, JohnR725 said:

On 10/12/2023 at 9:16 AM, Knebo said:

"Moebius grease"

One of the minor little problems is which Grease?

In all seriousness, though, what would you suggest to do with that level of imprecision?

If I'm honest, my instinct would be to use HP1300 (together with Fixodrop/Epilame). It's an oil, I know, but things have evolved since this service manual was written in 1960.

Alternatively, I have 9504 and 9415 greases at hand.

I'm copying the relevant pictures from the service manual for everyone to see without going through it all. 

Cheers!!

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Knebo

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, Knebo said:

9504

Personally for applications where I think  grease  Should go my favorite is 9504

9 hours ago, Knebo said:

If I'm honest, my instinct would be to use HP1300 (together with Fixodrop/Epilame). It's an oil, I know, but things have evolved since this service manual was written in 1960.

This brings up the problem should we even follow what the manufacturer does. The watch companies have slowly increase the viscosity of their lubrication on the Keyless for instance in the late 50s there were using 9010 and now they're up to HP oils all with epilam otherwise they will run away.

As for the rest of that basically you could flip a coin something scientific. There is specifying 9010 is a lubrication the lightest whale in the land. Definitely use epilam otherwise it will spread. I typically never use 9010 I would use 9020. If you want to use the HP oils probably going to be fine also just make sure you use epilam as they like to spread without it

[Knebo]

Thanks a lot @JohnR725!

So... you personally... would you use 9504 or HP1300+Epilam in this particular case?

 

Edit: I just looked at the respective technical sheets of 9504 and HP1300 and I found interesting that the "adhesion/grip" is rated higher for HP1300 than for 9504. See screenshots below. OR is it a different scale for oils vs greases (apples and oranges)?

Edited October 19, 2023 by Knebo