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44 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

yes some mystery tools are just too easy for you pros

one of the problems with watch repair tools are that may be some of them should be easy but we also end up with lots of tools acquired from other fields making things even more interesting. Often times at our local watch group meetings we will have missed retools because everybody is missed retools they might seem obvious to one person but they may not seem obvious to another.

Oh and then there's the other reference to the pros. A lot of people who have gone to the watch school have never seen the vast majority of specialized tools because they just don't see them in school. for instance where I work we used to have a head watchmaker at least the title on paper was that. Then locally we had a chronograph course so he volunteered to help because he knew how to do chronographs. Amusingly he learned about a tool that he had never seen before.

oh and I'm feeling lazy and don't want to take pictures right now unhelpful answer because I don't feel like being helpful at this instant time and I don't feel like taking pictures let's see if I can scan something really fast. Yes if you of a flatbed scanner can scan things sometimes with a depth of field sometimes not but if you're really lazy get watch photos really fast if you flatbed scanner or in this case mystery tool picture

the last time I looked up this tool for technical information was I basically couldn't find anything which tells you that it probably wasn't really that useful even though it does have a purpose and somebody went to a lot of trouble to make this but we just typically don't see a lot of them at all. We do have clues very unhelpful clues I didn't see them in your images on the corner of mine is the initials HR I assume that at one time this was a company sold tools. There's another tool catalog that I have lurking but the last time I went looking for it I couldn't find it because I suspect this would be at that particular catalog. Then did you notice the end of your tool it says star which is of course a Swiss tool something I'm not sure if they manufactured but they sold tools.

So how hard could it be to find a mystery tool that we know is made by star? so I would be curious as to whether yours says star on the end often times with Swiss tools especially those sold by a company who likes yellow golden color boxes they typically used to purchase their tools which is why a lot of times you find tools being sold by several companies because they didn't have exclusive rights to them.

I'm kinda hoping a few more people make wild guesses as to what this is for before I tell you what it actually is for and then I have to go find something in the bench to show what it actually is used for fortunately when is looking for something yesterday I found a whole container of the items that this is used with now if I just remember which drawer that was

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

 

one of the problems with watch repair tools are that may be some of them should be easy but we also end up with lots of tools acquired from other fields making things even more interesting. Often times at our local watch group meetings we will have missed retools because everybody is missed retools they might seem obvious to one person but they may not seem obvious to another.

Oh and then there's the other reference to the pros. A lot of people who have gone to the watch school have never seen the vast majority of specialized tools because they just don't see them in school. for instance where I work we used to have a head watchmaker at least the title on paper was that. Then locally we had a chronograph course so he volunteered to help because he knew how to do chronographs. Amusingly he learned about a tool that he had never seen before.

oh and I'm feeling lazy and don't want to take pictures right now unhelpful answer because I don't feel like being helpful at this instant time and I don't feel like taking pictures let's see if I can scan something really fast. Yes if you of a flatbed scanner can scan things sometimes with a depth of field sometimes not but if you're really lazy get watch photos really fast if you flatbed scanner or in this case mystery tool picture

the last time I looked up this tool for technical information was I basically couldn't find anything which tells you that it probably wasn't really that useful even though it does have a purpose and somebody went to a lot of trouble to make this but we just typically don't see a lot of them at all. We do have clues very unhelpful clues I didn't see them in your images on the corner of mine is the initials HR I assume that at one time this was a company sold tools. There's another tool catalog that I have lurking but the last time I went looking for it I couldn't find it because I suspect this would be at that particular catalog. Then did you notice the end of your tool it says star which is of course a Swiss tool something I'm not sure if they manufactured but they sold tools.

So how hard could it be to find a mystery tool that we know is made by star? so I would be curious as to whether yours says star on the end often times with Swiss tools especially those sold by a company who likes yellow golden color boxes they typically used to purchase their tools which is why a lot of times you find tools being sold by several companies because they didn't have exclusive rights to them.

I'm kinda hoping a few more people make wild guesses as to what this is for before I tell you what it actually is for and then I have to go find something in the bench to show what it actually is used for fortunately when is looking for something yesterday I found a whole container of the items that this is used with now if I just remember which drawer that was

 

 

 

Yes John this has the Star tool company logo on one end.

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18 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I think is an American thing,

why would it be exclusively an American thing because it says Swiss on 2 separate locations?

22 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I think is an American thing, so resizing the tap size on crowns ? 

the real clue is if you look at the tap sizes they basically correspond to crown sizes.

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1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I meant, I thought the safety pinion was an American thing, not the tool.

my bad I didn't read it correctly. So I apologize for the misunderstanding. then I do agree with the safety pinion was rather popular on American pocket watches for a while. usually always proudly engraved on the movement.

 

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6 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I meant, I thought the safety pinion was an American thing, not the tool. 

Haha i made the same mistake.

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

my bad I didn't read it correctly. So I apologize for the misunderstanding. then I do agree with the safety pinion was rather popular on American pocket watches for a while. usually always proudly engraved on the movement.

 

I think we've established that they are crown drills and taps, but now how to use them please John . Oh something else the price of them, i didn't pay a lot,  (£30) or so i thought until i found this seller on ebay which then made me unhappy 😒 . Then I looked again, hes selling the pieces separately 10 each for the drills and taps and 25 for the holder 25 for the wallet ( if hes lucky ) . So over 200 for the set, so now I'm happy 😊. Something to sell John if you dont use yours ?. 

Screenshot_20231022-070514_eBay.jpg

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3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

but now how to use them

casually the tool looks bewildering and there is something it didn't make sense? Then you study it carefully and then you realize oh okay this makes sense now. But it would probably help if I got some pictures tomorrow. although technically I define tomorrow as whenever I wake up after I go to bed so that will be hours from now.

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Something to sell John if you dont use yours ?. 

what sell the tools that I don't use what if I might need them someday in the future? although I have no idea when I acquired the tool and zero idea of what I paid for it.

 

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1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

casually the tool looks bewildering and there is something it didn't make sense? Then you study it carefully and then you realize oh okay this makes sense now. But it would probably help if I got some pictures tomorrow. although technically I define tomorrow as whenever I wake up after I go to bed so that will be hours from now.

what sell the tools that I don't use what if I might need them someday in the future? although I have no idea when I acquired the tool and zero idea of what I paid for it.

 

I haven't really studied it much, it only came through my door on Friday.  I kind of knew what it was from a previous sighting on ebay a year ago. I can see how the drills and taps fit in the holder actually they can go in both ends, the picture I've shown i think the drill is in wrong end. I'm assuming a crown is held by the vice end and a drill or tap is fitted through the opposite end to work on the crown while its viced up. The pictures show how i think it works, I'm thinking use a tap that fits the crown to be worked on to center it in the vice, lock the crown in place, remove the tap then use a drill and a bigger tap to rethread the crown.  I really should have more of a play but breakfast out wifey's treat was calling me.   As for selling on , you know what they say # if you haven't used something in over a year then you dont need it # I'm positive watchmaker's are not factored into that saying. 🙂

Screenshot_20231022-121554_Samsung Internet.jpg

Screenshot_20231022-122058_Samsung Internet.jpg

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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In days of yore, pocket watch crowns were offered without a tapped hole.  They were then drilled and tapped to match the stem. 

In my current case, I would have salvaged a crown by plugging the hole and then re drilling and tapping. 

To do this on the lathe, I'd have to set up  a way to hold an onion shaped crown (pain) and I'd still have to find a tap for a "tap 0" thread to work with stem in the watch case. 

Using this little gadget would have been easier.   I ended up finding a crown that worked,  but it was a bit of an ordeal.  The crown is also a bit more worn than I would like, but oh well..

Cheers

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33 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

tap it on the lathe

recently on this group somebody indicated they lived in a super tiny house and they didn't have a lathe. So unfortunately not everybody has a lathe. So that option is out.

48 minutes ago, dadistic said:

I want!!!  I want!!!

This would have been so helpful with the Philadelphia Watch Case Co. 18s case I'm trying to get functioning again.

by the way minor problems with the tool like for instance how common is its existence? then the tap size for vintage versus modern I'm not sure that's the same. In other words are 18 size case is probably something different probably.

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They are not common, and what's available is expensive, at least here in the states. 

I've looked,  and there are sets for pocket watch and wrist watch, different thread types and sizes. I've seen one set that was numbered 0 to whatever tap sizes,  what I needed was the tap 0. I can't even make one, too big, don't have a screw plate that goes that big. 

The biggest pain in working with vintage is trying to deal with the various threads in use.  I don't think many people can, or things like case screws for Elgin or Waltham watches wouldn't be so pricey!

 

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8 hours ago, dadistic said:

I want!!!  I want!!!

This would have been so helpful with the Philadelphia Watch Case Co. 18s case I'm trying to get functioning again. 

Sigh. Ever more tools. 

The one i have is only the second one I've come across in a year , then there is this seller a few posts back that has split up the set to sell. The holder doesn't  look too complicated to turn up on your lathe David. I dont know if it helps at all but the drills and taps are numbered 0 -9 and the wallet shows the corresponding mm measurements 

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On 10/22/2023 at 10:27 AM, JohnR725 said:

casually the tool looks bewildering and there is something it didn't make sense? Then you study it carefully and then you realize oh okay this makes sense now. But it would probably help if I got some pictures tomorrow. although technically I define tomorrow as whenever I wake up after I go to bed so that will be hours from now.

what sell the tools that I don't use what if I might need them someday in the future? although I have no idea when I acquired the tool and zero idea of what I paid for it.

 

Hi John, I'm still not clear on how to use this, do you have any advice for me please 🙏

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I did figure out where my vintage catalog of tools was and I got a description from the catalog. Notice it does skip over some details.

then if you really want pictures possibly much later today maybe. In the meantime description the one side is used to hold the crown in clamp the crown for drilling in thread cutting. Obviously the crown has to fit within a certain size and/or shape where it's not going to fit right.

I think to a certain degree the tool itself is self-explanatory if you hold it in your hand. One side is for holding the crown this forms a little clamp you screw in the piece that holds the crown tight against the hole where the drill Goes through. But before you put the crown in you would have to determine something which is how far do you really want to drill? if you look at the other end of the tool with the hole and the adjustable part that is an adjustable end stop. This way you can set how far the drill goes and you do not drill all the way through the crowd as you would have no other way of determining where the drill is.

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.2ecf53f97d58ee7b599c2e7a394b0b9f.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I did figure out where my vintage catalog of tools was and I got a description from the catalog. Notice it does skip over some details.

then if you really want pictures possibly much later today maybe. In the meantime description the one side is used to hold the crown in clamp the crown for drilling in thread cutting. Obviously the crown has to fit within a certain size and/or shape where it's not going to fit right.

I think to a certain degree the tool itself is self-explanatory if you hold it in your hand. One side is for holding the crown this forms a little clamp you screw in the piece that holds the crown tight against the hole where the drill Goes through. But before you put the crown in you would have to determine something which is how far do you really want to drill? if you look at the other end of the tool with the hole and the adjustable part that is an adjustable end stop. This way you can set how far the drill goes and you do not drill all the way through the crowd as you would have no other way of determining where the drill is.

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.2ecf53f97d58ee7b599c2e7a394b0b9f.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats fantastic John i really appreciate your help, it was the depth stop that was throwing me off, makes perfect sense now 👍

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