Gear and Spring Questions

[gpraceman]

I got a non-working Elgin 996 (AS 1902/1903) from Flea Bay for not a lot.  Well, I found out why it wasn't working.  Two reasons actually.  I had the back off and turned the watch over to look at the dial.  The pinion part of a gear fell out onto the workbench.  It was for the "driving gear for crown wheel" according to the parts list.  I went to let down the main spring, but found that the click wasn't working at all, so the main spring had no wind in it anyway.  Taking the ratchet wheel off, I saw that there was no click spring at all.  Fortunately, I found it sitting in the train of wheels.

On the driving gear (photo below), are those pinion "fingers" supposed to be expanded into the gear hole to hold it in place, or is it a simple press fit?  Looks like I need to get myself a staking set.

While thankfully, I don't have to source a click spring, I did manage to have one of two springs for the automatic works ping away to outer space.  You can see both still in the auto works of the attached photo.  I have had no luck finding it.  I am curious if anyone has tried making their own springs?  I at least have one to replicate a replacement off of.  Not sure how hard it would be to find suitable flat spring stock.

Edited June 19, 2023 by gpraceman

[gpraceman]

After a 2nd sweep, I was able to find the spring that pinged off.

I am still curious to hear how to properly fix that gear.

[Endeavor]

Not having the tech-info of the movement, but If that broken part is from the automatic winding works, gearing down to the ratchet wheel, there will be a lot of force on that little sprocket. Chances are high that self-repair is going to be futile.

You may have to find that part, or a (running / non-running) donor movement for spares, and get your movement properly repaired. Plus, if you buy a donor movement, it will give you some additional springs to improve your searching skills, or better, a chance to learn how to contain the springs 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Endeavor

[gpraceman]

1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

Not having the tech-info of the movement, but If that broken part is from the automatic winding works, gearing down to the ratchet wheel, there will be a lot of force on that little sprocket. Chances are high that self-repair is going to be futile.

You may have to find a (running / non-running) donor movement for spares and get your movement properly repaired. Plus, a donor movement will give you some additional springs to improve your searching skills, or better, a chance to learn how to contain the springs 

I happen to have another Elgin 996 movement, which is missing the automatic works.  That sprocket is shown in red.  It interfaces with the ratchet wheel.  The other part of the wheel interfaces with the auto works via the hole in blue.  I was originally hoping that between the two movements, I would end up with one good.  But they are such nice movements, I wouldn't mind having two working ones.

I did manage to improve my future searching probability significantly today, lol.  As I was at the hardware store, I found a magnetic sweeper with 12" wide head.  It's meant to pick up nuts, bolts, nails, and it would now seem, watch parts.

Edited June 21, 2023 by gpraceman

[Endeavor]

That's a proper sweeper !!  However, not all watch part are magnetic, so best it to improve your "containment" skills.

As I thought, it's a reduction wheel and the little sprocket will see a lot of force. I had a quick look on the European eBay and a donor movement doesn't seem expensive. With a bit of luck you can find a movement which has all the parts for repairing both of your movements.......

Suc6

 

[HectorLooi]

1 hour ago, gpraceman said:

As I was at the hardware store, I found a magnetic sweeper with 12" wide head.

Nice! Looks like a weekend project for me.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

That's a proper sweeper !!  However, not all watch part are magnetic,

we have one of those at work it works nice except as stated above not everything is magnetic unfortunately.

Microphone off

On 6/19/2023 at 2:33 PM, gpraceman said:

Elgin 996

here's a website that lists the parts for your watch what makes it interesting is you can click on the part and see which other watches are using the same part.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=ELG_996

then you can go to their home page and take the part number and enter it in and see if they have it available sometimes they do like you mentioned your click spring I think that's available.

then this is their home page

http://www.julesborel.com/

then how did I find that page you will hear

http://cgi.julesborel.com/

4 hours ago, gpraceman said:

I am still curious to hear how to properly fix that gear

if you look at your own image it looks like the part of suffered a lot of damage. As I believe someone else said there's a lot of stress on that part and viewers failed. The best would be to just replace it as I don't think you're going to build attached it back to factory new strength which didn't work very well in the first place it just be best to get a replacement

[gpraceman]

Well, unless I can find the auto works for the one movement, I could just steal the gear out of that one and put it on the one that has the auto works.  I have found some sources for a replacement wheel, if needed.

These are such looking nice movements, but the trouble that I had with finding the auto works is that these movements come either in gold, copper or silver colored.  I bought the 2nd movement thinking that it was gold in color, like my first.  Turned out to be copper colored.  The listing photos fooled me.  But the case for the 1st is not in good shape (yet the movement was pristine), so I may only end up with one good watch anyway.

[JohnR725]

On 6/19/2023 at 2:33 PM, gpraceman said:

Elgin 996 (AS 1902/1903)

Oh and I have a curiosity question why do you think the Elgin is equal to those other watches? Is that what it says under the balance wheel?

 

[gpraceman]

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Oh and I have a curiosity question why do you think the Elgin is equal to those other watches? Is that what it says under the balance wheel?

 

Yes, that is what is labeled on the main plate, under the balance wheel.