Lessons first or just dive in?

[linux]

New member here, just signed up today.  I've been collecting some tools and found an old Endura stopwatch that I'm about to take apart.  Got the back off and looked inside and realized that I have two choices.

1. Watch a bunch of youtube videos and get a general feeling for the parts groups (did this) and then just dive in, take pictures and disassemble/reassemble several times... or

2. Take a structured course and then do it with some more knowledge.

What do you'all think?  It's an old beater stopwatch but it's large is calling my name to just do it.

So I see there's a course series on this site that looks pretty good and there are others.  Is this a worthwhile course and what do others recommend as alternatives?

 

Thanks in advance.

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome.  I suppose it depends on your learning style. 

[nickelsilver]

When I got into watchmaking, I checked out every book my library had on it. I already had serviced several cameras (thanks to a book). I got a set of screwdrivers and some Dumont #3 tweezers, and went to town on every cheap watch I could find. Carpeted work area, no idea you could buy parts, learned how to find cap jewels in shag carpet.

 

2 and some years later a graduate from watchmaking school, couple years after that working in Switzerland, been here 20+ years. Be careful what you wish for!

 

But the old books, DeCarle, Fried, Gazeley*, good stuff. YT also, but a lot of bad practices. If you want to pay your rent off watches, go to school. Want to do it as a hobby, stick with YT and this forum. There are a bunch of very clever folks in these parts.

 

*Gazeley has so much info in his book it's nuts. I swear Daniels copped 30% of his writing from him. Deep watchmaking.

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

When I got into watchmaking, I checked out every book my library had on it. I already had serviced several cameras (thanks to a book). I got a set of screwdrivers and some Dumont #3 tweezers, and went to town on every cheap watch I could find. Carpeted work area, no idea you could buy parts, learned how to find cap jewels in shag carpet.

 

2 and some years later a graduate from watchmaking school, couple years after that working in Switzerland, been here 20+ years. Be careful what you wish for!

 

But the old books, DeCarle, Fried, Gazeley*, good stuff. YT also, but a lot of bad practices. If you want to pay your rent off watches, go to school. Want to do it as a hobby, stick with YT and this forum. There are a bunch of very clever folks in these parts.

 

*Gazeley has so much info in his book it's nuts. I swear Daniels copped 30% of his writing from him. Deep watchmaking.

I have a similar approach to anything I'm learning. I want to know the far end of a fart but cant sit back and procrastinate. I love to jump in and get down to business and when I'm not doing that i read anything i can get my hands on. Theory is great but putting that theory into practise helps to understand that theory and formulate your own ideas. And without the knowledge building of theory your doings are blind attempts at repairing with lots and lots of mistakes. 

[Aroxx]

It’s a good question as I find myself in the same boat. Started reading a bit of de Carle but then life took over. I think I’ll go for a mix. Just enough reading to be dangerous and then tear apart one or two of the junk movements I have. Then maybe get the online class and move onto a real practice movement. 
 

This just reminded me of an approach to learning I read about. A brief hands on introduction before getting much in the way of instruction can be very beneficial. Even though you have no idea what you’re doing, when instruction starts you’ll have some context so it hopefully makes sense instead of just going right over your head.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Aroxx
Expanded my response.

[watchweasol]

Hi I think the structured way with Marks course is best as it will lead you forward in bite sized parts you can understand with videos   The dive in method sometimes leads to frustration and disenchantment. Depends also on cost both methods require some capital investment. So the initial question is what can you afford to invest in training and tools. The structured guides you through the tools you need the unstructured you may end up buying tools that are not fit for pourpous or not as why’s required the choice is of course entirely yours.

[oldhippy]

I always advise you should start with pocket watches (not fusee pocket watch’s they are very different) Pocket watches are just the same as an ordinary watch but much bigger. Practise taking them apart putting them back together. This will give you good practise using your tweezers, screwdrivers and your eye glass. You will learn how the movement works.  You will get to know the pieces. It doesn’t matter if the movement doesn’t work. I have said many times on this forum no matter how many books you read there is nothing better than to get your hands dirty.

You might find this helpful.

 

704789946_TZIllustratedGlossary(2).pdf

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

I have said many times on this forum no matter how many books you read there is nothing better than to get your hands dirty.

Or in this day and age no matter how many YouTube videos You watch In watch repair. So many people watch the YouTube videos where everything looks so simple versus how small a watch really is.

[tomh207]

My tuppence on this, always learn the basic principles, first by reading/watching then going practical. Once you start doing the practical you will start to learn what you need to know. You then go back to the written and you then understand more, the loop continues.

 

tom

[Melody]

Hi, new to the  forum. I'm just at the new to hobby stage. I've aquired several cheap lots online and began tinkering. I have a few books and have watched videos. I was lucky enough to stumble across a strip and reassemble of a cheap watch that I have.  Looking forward to this step by step tutorial for my first dive.  Working on twizzer control (flying into space never to be found screws ) and discovering  the "joy" not "dread" of  figuring out where that  "part" fell out from  after having just tried to change the battery. Have fun and Best wishes. 

 

[Knebo]

Where in Switzerland are you based @nickelsilver? 

Greetings from Geneva! 

On 6/18/2023 at 1:51 AM, nickelsilver said:

2 and some years later a graduate from watchmaking school, couple years after that working in Switzerland, been here 20+ years. Be careful what you wish for!

[nickelsilver]

2 hours ago, Knebo said:

Where in Switzerland are you based @nickelsilver? 

Greetings from Geneva! 

I'm in Neuchatel the last 10 or so years.

[Knebo]

4 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

I'm in Neuchatel the last 10 or so years.

Oh cool. Let me know if you're ever in Geneva. Would be cool to meet you for a coffee.

PS: sorry everyone for hijacking the thread there... will stop it now.

[Canadianwatchmaker]

Hello everyone. I seem to be talking about this more and more these days, which makes me so happy. So hope this helps. About 15 years ago, I stumbled into the world of watch collecting and not to long after, watchmaking. After discovering George Daniels, I never looked back. Now, being in Canada, I quickly found out how hard it is to become a watchmaker with only one school in the country and me no where near it and unable to attend.  So I decided to train myself. 15 years later, I am on my way. So I quickly learnt that reading as much as possible was better first, the reason being I could only diagnose what was wrong with a watch, based I what I knew. I  cleaned a watch and it was bad in the timegrapher, back again to read, and back again to fix, a frustrating cycle.When I started read more and more I realized there are things I was doing that seemed ok but was bad for the future of the watch, like over oiling for example, or what I thought was a clean movement really was not, these things affect service intervals. Over 20 books and with the help of other watchmakers, here I am. So if there is anything I can help with please ask, and if you have the determination to do it ,you can. But there are  lots of things involved. Two big things I learnt from others, being your own quality control and maintaining standards. 
 

[Knebo]

2 hours ago, Canadianwatchmaker said:

Hello everyone. I seem to be talking about this more and more these days, which makes me so happy. So hope this helps. About 15 years ago, I stumbled into the world of watch collecting and not to long after, watchmaking. After discovering George Daniels, I never looked back. Now, being in Canada, I quickly found out how hard it is to become a watchmaker with only one school in the country and me no where near it and unable to attend.  So I decided to train myself. 15 years later, I am on my way. So I quickly learnt that reading as much as possible was better first, the reason being I could only diagnose what was wrong with a watch, based I what I knew. I  cleaned a watch and it was bad in the timegrapher, back again to read, and back again to fix, a frustrating cycle.When I started read more and more I realized there are things I was doing that seemed ok but was bad for the future of the watch, like over oiling for example, or what I thought was a clean movement really was not, these things affect service intervals. Over 20 books and with the help of other watchmakers, here I am. So if there is anything I can help with please ask, and if you have the determination to do it ,you can. But there are  lots of things involved. Two big things I learnt from others, being your own quality control and maintaining standards. 
 

Very wise

An congratulations on your journey! 

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, Canadianwatchmaker said:

like over oiling

For the most part books on watch repair or horology are very good. Which probably explains why I have quite a few of them. So for the most part of vintage book on watchmaking is going to be no different than modern watchmaking with only some procedures stuff updating. But there are some reason of changed with time and lubrication has changed. For instance I have attached a PDF on page 8 they show lubrication a pivots the minimum at least when I was in school would've been a maximum. One of the schools a definition basically was if we could see you've lubricated it's too much so it's image of minimum would've been too much. Then you notice the maximum acceptable is basically as long as you can see the top of the pivots. That would definitely got you a scolding and the watch tossed in the sawdust box to start over. Although the maximum now acceptable back then might have just caused you to been expelled for just gross incompetence at lubrication.

5 hours ago, Canadianwatchmaker said:

or what I thought was a clean movement really was not

Then this is an interesting problem. One of the things people should do when their learning is to keep a running watch and preferably keep it for several years. Check on it from time to time and see how it's doing. See if it still running see how the lubrication looks etc. A lot of people in the group like lighter fluid and some of the lighter fluids have additives additives like oil perhaps as I don't quite remember what additives were but some of them do have additives are not pure solvents. So if you have what looks like a clean watch but still has a very thin film of oil that's going to be very bad over time as it will allow the oil to wick away much faster than it would normally. So yes there is an unfortunate problem of what exactly clean is.

Another reason to keep a sample watch that you specifically labeled so you know what it is is poor lubrication choices .I'm a skip over those but they might've seemed nice and inexpensive and wonderful at the time but after your two when your watch is no longer running perhaps they were not quite the right choice to make.

6 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Neuchatel

I find the word Neuchâtel interesting. I suppose you referring to a city? For those people not familiar with the location I have a Wikipedia entry. As you can see it's actually several things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuchâtel

 

Omega 8645_WI_40_rules for lubrication cousins UK.pdf

[nickelsilver]

14 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I find the word Neuchâtel interesting. I suppose you referring to a city? For those people not familiar with the location I have a Wikipedia entry. As you can see it's actually several things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuchâtel

 

Omega 8645_WI_40_rules for lubrication cousins UK.pdf 1.28 MB · 0 downloads

I know you did Wostep- I can throw acorns on the patrons of Chauffage Compris and am a 2m walk to Cafe du Cerf. 1m to Debit du Vins which used to be a cool bar but is occupied by drunks now, but, oddly the owner's brother is one of the co-patent dudes of the most recent version of non-magnetic hairspring material from Nivarox,  haha. I love the owner of debit du vins- awesome dude. He's been trying to hook me up with his brother for ages but we just haven't found the time (takes like 3 months advance notice to have coffee in Switzerland).

[JohnR725]

24 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Wostep

One of the amusements I have is if you look at the address of the school at the time I was there I don't believe it actually was in Neuchâtel. For those not familiar with wostep until it found a permanent home in the city of Neuchâtel it rented various locations. So at the time I was there it was up the hill by a fair distance. Then the apartment building that several of us stayed at was in walking distance a little farther up and I definitely know it did not have a Neuchâtel address just can't quite remember what it is right now. But still I have really fond memories of Neuchâtel.

Although it would've been nice if they didn't embrace how well they speak French. Apparently they were very famous for how well they speak French. In the apartment I was in the student across the way he could not speak a word of English as he came from the French part of Canada. Apparently he was here to perfect his French to be very very perfect.