Pocket watch dust sleeves, why people hate them? Any 3d printing test?

[Dmitry]

I enjoy restoring old pocket watches and very rarely do I come across one with the dust sleeve still attached.

Can anyone who does these repairs for a living share their observations on this subject? 

Why do these sleeves get discarded or removed?

Has anyone tried 3d-printing some those? Should be possible based on accurate measurements.

Thank you. 

[LittleWatchShop]

19 hours ago, Dmitry said:

I enjoy restoring old pocket watches and very rarely do I come across one with the dust sleeve still attached.

Can anyone who does these repairs for a living share their observations on this subject? 

Why do these sleeves get discarded or removed?

Has anyone tried 3d-printing some those? Should be possible based on accurate measurements.

Thank you. 

Not sure what a dust sleeve is. The Waltham PWs I have been servicing have a metal ring that slips on the movement. Prolly what you are talking about. They are thin. I cannot resolve something that thin on my 3D printer. I have printed a few wristwatch case rings, but I had more space

[dadistic]

10 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Not sure what a dust sleeve is. The Waltham PWs I have been servicing have a metal ring that slips on the movement. Prolly what you are talking about. They are thin. I cannot resolve something that thin on my 3D printer. I have printed a few wristwatch case rings, but I had more space

Yep, that's the dust ring (or sleeve). They are like socks. The gnomes steal them. 

[JohnR725]

On 3/4/2023 at 9:01 AM, Dmitry said:

I enjoy restoring old pocket watches and very rarely do I come across one with the dust sleeve still attached

first off can you establish or show proof that every single pocket watch in existence did originally have a dust sleeve with it? In other words at one time when the pocket watch movements were in one place the cases were another it stands reason they probably had a dust sleeve but did every single one have one? then what if they were cased up by the factory they wouldn't need a dust ring is factory wouldn't be dusty. So we need to somehow establish that every single watch originally would've had a ring and now it's missing.

On 3/4/2023 at 9:01 AM, Dmitry said:

Why do these sleeves get discarded or removed?

here's a theory maybe there stolen as a souvenir of a pocket watch serviced. Of course the problem is one of somebody serviced it before you then you don't get a souvenir?

One problem of why they may not get back on is you have to remember to put them back on in other words they would've in one of the first things that come off they're not actually a movement part the rest the watch would go through the cleaning machine this would go well I typically keeping with the dial and hands to remember to put it back on again. Although I have heard a rumor that you can a lot of money selling them in the black market.

On 3/4/2023 at 9:01 AM, Dmitry said:

Has anyone tried 3d-printing some those? Should be possible based on accurate measurements.

 

11 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

They are thin. I cannot resolve something that thin on my 3D printer

you just have to change your slicer settings and get a much much smaller nozzle. My understanding is that if you try to print something super thin the slicer will refuse to see it as a object and refuse to slice it so you can't print paper thin. But I think with the smallest typical nozzle .1 mm and changing the slicer setting well is going to be too thick. This means stereolithography would probably be the only way. But printing that thin will it be breakable because it's going to have to be thinner than eggshell maybe if you pick the right choice of risen perhaps. Or he talked to the rumored black market people they were all sold to originally maybe they'll sell them back.

Oh and the other minor reason they might not be there is they may interfere with some particular cases the watch goes into so in other words the watch wasn't designed to work with a watch with a dust ring. 

then we also have to establish of dust rings came on every single pocket watch size because I think they're more common on 18 and 16 size. I don't know if the smaller sized ones necessarily had them.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

I was thinking about making a jig that would press out a sleeve. Pondering...

[KarlvonKoln]

I have worked on American and Swiss pocket watches, and what follows are merely my observations and opinions, but I've been seeing a number of variables at work.  For example, I believe the presence of a dust ring depends much more on the brand or style of case, than it does upon the movement.  
I have worked on American movements which had a "step" or "shoulder" along the edge of the plate.  And I was able to find examples of that grade of movement with a dust ring on them.  But the particular watches I worked on did not have them.  I have spare dust rings and I had ones that were meant for the movements, but I discovered that if I put it on the movement, then the movement would no longer fit into in the case it came from; there were issues with maneuvering it into place.  But without the ring, it fit well and tight.  And the way the cases sealed well (screw backs and bezels, I couldn't see much benefit from the dust ring anyway.  Now, some other movements I've serviced came with dust rings, and seemed to need them to fit well in their cases.  They seemed a tad loose without them.  Some just seemed to seal better against particulate matter that might enter the the lift-spring slot or elsewhere.
That said, I have also encountered some movements which I was pretty sure, just looking at the edge of the plate, were never made to use a dust ring.
Of those movements that could take a dust ring, I think adding one may have relied on the knowledge of the jeweler who was casing the watch, or whoever did the installing, as to whether a watch needs a dust ring for the case it was being put into, or whether the case will seal well enough to keep it relatively safe.
And for us to this day, I still think it may be a judgement call.  If a movement can take a dust ring, and the case allows for it and the movement would benefit, there's no reason not to add one if you have it.  But if the movement has no step or shoulder to keep a dust ring at the right height, or if the movement cannot be fitted into place in the case with a dust ring present, all you can do is leave it off.  Whatever does the watch the most good.

Edited March 6, 2023 by KarlvonKoln