clock repair question

[corvairbob]

i got a young boy asking me if i might be able to help him repair his franz hermis clock.  it has these identifiers on the back  1051-020   and 11cm   over  200.73 so far i have gleaned the 1051 is the model the 11cm is the pendulum length  but have no clue yet the the 200.73   anyway he wants to fix the clock and i told him i could put a battery chime movement into it but he would liek this one repaired. i have 0 clock repair. i could oil it at least but my guess is being it is not a jeweled movement that it is just worn out and may not be worth even oiling it.  the clock store quoted him 120$ for oil and a time band whatever that is.

so i tried to find a movement on ebay and they are all old and most likely in the same condition. a nos unt is 270$ new are 400 to 500$ this is way more than the kid can afford.  

he does not want to put in a battery movement so i told him i would do some research and see what i can find or figure out.

so is there any other movements that may fit the clock case? i may be able to find a newer movement and retro fit it into the case for him.  but i just do not see any cross reference for clocks online. 

i do see lots of franz hermle movements that are in newer condition  these are in the 340-020a model and don't have the internal pendulum.  so if one like that could be a retro fit i can bring that up to him for consideration.

it seems he or his dad maybe his grandfather got it for a retirement most likely his grandfather and it has not run for years. he says it will run for like 5 minutes and stop. he took it to a local clock repair shop and they said oil and a time band. i do not know what that is but my guess is the clock mainspring

the last photo that shows the pendulum on the base was to tell him that he may have to put that back on but he said he had it on and it did not stay running anyway so he set it on the base just because

thanks for any ideas

[corvairbob]

here is the work rder from the local clock shop maybe some here can figure out what he is trying to tell the customer?  i got oil shot test runa nd time band ithink he is saying time mainspring  so if it is the main spring i wonder if one of the other 2 springs could be swapped over to the time spring?

unless someone has a rebuilt movement or knows of them? but a newer movement that i may be able to install in this case may be better and cheaper, i tired to talk him into a battery movement with chimes but he wants this movement i tried to tell him it just may be beyond repairing kind of like an old rusted out car that you can fix but your putting more money into it that you will ever get out of it.

[watchweasol]

Hello   all the component parts seem to be there including the suspension  , so what is the problem?  Have you tried the springs to see if one is broken, Is the suspension spring (although there) in one piece and serviceable.  All things considered for some one with zero clock experience a Hermle 1051-020 is not the place to start. As you will appreciate they are quite complex. These are triple chime  movements.

I repaired one of these for a friend a while back and he was quoted £350 pounds so $125 dollars is cheap. I doubt its a stripdown and re build more like replace the broken spring and a bit of oil.  What you can do if you feel up to it is remove the movement from its case and check for the broken spring, from memory I think each barrel is removeable without dismantling the movement (picture of the front plate) to be sure. Then we have the problem of removing power from all springs before attempting to do anything and without the correct tool its a bit dodgy to do. Then we come to the obtaining a spare spring or barrel complete(best option) without tools replacing the spring is all most impossible for some one with no knowledge. If we put things into perspective the cost of parts/tools and time etc makes the quote $125 look inviting.

[HectorLooi]

On 12/22/2022 at 9:48 PM, corvairbob said:

a newer movement that i may be able to install in this case may be better and cheaper, i tired to talk him into a battery movement with chimes but he wants this movement i tried to tell him it just may be beyond repairing kind of like an old rusted out car that you can fix but your putting more money into it that you will ever get out of it.

You'll definitely be on Santa's naughty list for suggesting to replace a mechanical movement with a quartz movement.

A mechanical movement can always be rebuilt to a good working condition by a skilled clockmaker, provided that it hadn't been butchered previously. 

Your young customer is smart lad and knows what he wants.

[JohnR725]

On 12/22/2022 at 5:40 AM, corvairbob said:

the clock store quoted him 120$ for oil and a time band whatever that is.

So somebody quoted a price to fix the clock? Is that what this means.

On 12/22/2022 at 5:40 AM, corvairbob said:

so i tried to find a movement on ebay and they are all old and most likely in the same condition. a nos unt is 270$ new are 400 to 500$ this is way more than the kid can afford.

Whenever you see lots of broken movements on eBay or movements for parts that's because it's typically in some parts of the planet cheaper to just put a new movement in or a new equivalent movement. Then equivalent does not mean quartz. But a lot of the costs are determined by where exactly you are?

On 12/22/2022 at 6:25 AM, watchweasol said:

all the component parts seem to be there including the suspension  , so what is the problem? 

Then this is a great question what exactly is the problem anyway?

[corvairbob]

thanks for the replies and the help. i just can't tell you exactly what the issue is. he starts it and it runs for 1 or so minutes.  i have a video of it running  see the link. one thing i noticed is the pivot on the pendulum is swinging on at the top area of the escapement looks to be wobbling a bit. so that may be an issue at that point.

  thanks.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DVPEauZUqqpCxqg28

Edited December 24, 2022 by corvairbob

[KarlvonKoln]

2 hours ago, corvairbob said:

thanks for the replies and the help. i just can't tell you exactly what the issue is. he starts it and it runs for 1 or so minutes.  i have a video of it running  see the link. one thing i noticed is the pivot on the pendulum is swinging on at the top area of the escapement looks to be wobbling a bit. so that may be an issue at that point.

  thanks.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DVPEauZUqqpCxqg28

I hope @oldhippy sees this.  Hey, everyone who knows clocks, LOOK CLOSELY at the video.  The escape wheel isn't advancing when the pendulum is set in motion.  That could mean a lot of things: badly in need of cleaning, works are jammed in some way, mainspring is broken, and possibly more.  I will let the more experienced clock people watch that video and ask diagnostic questions. 

[JohnR725]

Yes the pendulum swinging looks weird. Although it looks much better if you slow the playback speed way way down makes it easier to see things a little bit. The only thing I'm seeing is it appears to be out of beat. In other words the pendulum is way more on the left-hand side of the opening. Then clocks have a variety of ways of putting them in beat and it also means it's easy if you don't know what you're doing to knock them out of beat.

I went back and looked at the video again and yes to something not quite right about the swing of the pendulum. Plus is also misleading in that the pendulum is still swinging but the escape wheel is not moving so it may seem like it runs longer than it does I don't think it really is running that long at all. Then yes we definitely need a clock person here on the beat aspect.

[oldhippy]

There is no power going through the going train, something is preventing this, because of this it is a job to tell if the clock is in beat. From what I see in the video clip the movement looks dry. You need to take the movement out of its case. Take nice clean photos of the movement, front and back plates, escapement including pallets, photos of between the plates so we can see all the workings.   

[watchweasol]

Hi. One can only reiterate Old Hippys message.    The pendulum swings ok but the escape wheel is not advancing, it may be due to the fact of power loss in the train or the escapement is not releasing the wheel due to being adjusted wrong (depth). but as said it needs to come out of the case ,  put on a level surface and then manually move the pendulum and check the locking of the pallet on the escape wheel.    Power loss may be due to the time and (mainspring) being broken and of course more pictures front, back ,sides.    Cheers.