Hand cleaning

[Stuart2]

good evening,

Can anyone recommend a clock cleaning fluid for hand cleaning antique cast brass clocks. 

[watchweasol]

Hi what I use is the PRIORY CLOCK CLEANER.  It’s a concentrate ammoniated cleaner and for me does a good job,  soak or run on the cleaner for 15 to 20 mins and then brush.  Use gloves to protect your hands.  

[oldhippy]

Horolene clock cleaner is the one I used many years ago. I understand the one watchweasol mentioned is cheaper both will do the same thing. You mentioned cast brass if it is cast what ever you do do not use one of those ultrasonic cleaners as it can and will cause stress fractures in the brass. What type of clock movement is it?

[Stuart2]

@watchweasol  @oldhippy

Thanks for the replies, it is a fusee cast brass movement. So is it ok to use ammonia based products?  just not in the ultrasonic.

[watchweasol]

I agree with Old Hippy do not use the ultrasonic. I just soak the plates in the solution then brush the wheels and the rest go in the rotary cleaner (national) for the same time.

[transporter]

Here’s a warning for ultrasonic cleaners. Yes I use a 6 ltr tank, this was in the cleaner for 10 minutes. 
I have had to make a new one but could of done without the hassle

[oldhippy]

I hope people pay attention to what I have been saying for ages about ultrasonic cleaners and what can happen to parts. Just imagine if this was a wheel from a very expensive antique clock.  I thank you for posting that photo. 

[KarlvonKoln]

If it's any consolation, OH, I'm one of those who's been paying attention.   Dealing primarily with antique pocket watches, and understanding that metallurgy was a bit different back then, I decided to educate myself more about how these ultrasonic cleaners work, and what all the hubbub was about.
Apparently these machines make use of an aquatic principle called cavitation, whereby the sound waves cause the liquid to form tiny pockets (or cavities) of vaporized liguid which, because the temperature has *not* been raised to boiling point, will soon collapse and have the effect of loosening stubborn grime.  
Not knowing how aggressive this action could be, I at first wasn't sure how something like that could affect harder material like metal.  Then I read about the effect of cavitation on boat propellers.  Holy carp!  Cavitation can cause pitting in the metal propeller!  If the propeller moves too quick through the water, in the space left behind by where the blade was, a pocket can instantly form and collapse - with such force that it puts a tiny divot in the metal.
So I learned that there are variables too.  If the brass or steel is too old and/or too soft, it can be more vulnerable to cavitation.  If the ultrasonic machine has a higher power setting than most, and you use that setting, it can cause damage.  Micro-fractures in the metal can be a focal point for cavitation.  Leaving the parts in the ultrasonic cleaner too long can eventually cause damage.  It's a lot to think about.  
And yet, some people are good at using them, and they clean different kinds of jewelry all the time.  Yet, a watch is more than just jewelry; it has to function as a machine.  So...I think I will put off getting an ultrasound for now.

[transporter]

53 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I hope people pay attention to what I have been saying for ages about ultrasonic cleaners and what can happen to parts. Just imagine if this was a wheel from a very expensive antique clock.  I thank you for posting that photo. 

This was from a rather expensive fusee platform clock. 
the clock that I’m having snags with due to the badly worn teeth on the fusee and the centres being lost from previous servicing where it wasn’t bushed but spiked. 
myself and my mentor have adjusted the centres and it ran for 8 whole winds but is now stopping every few days and is showing brass shavings on the centre wheel leaves which  run on the fusee teeth.

So the hunt for a replacement fusee continues 

[oldhippy]

Any chance of your mentor making a new one? if not you should be able to have one made. 

[transporter]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

Any chance of your mentor making a new one? if not you should be able to have one made. 

What a whole new fusee? The teeth and the cone are one unit, there is no join, the only join is where the arbor runs up the centre of the fusee. 

 I’m thinking that’s a big lump of brass that’s been turned down.
 

[oldhippy]

By your reply you seamed shocked. Yes it can be made. I would look at a copy of clock magazine at the adds. Or better still contact Tommy Jobson. Here is his link https://www.horologiumprecision.co.uk/tommy-jobson

[transporter]

11 hours ago, oldhippy said:

By your reply you seamed shocked. Yes it can be made. I would look at a copy of clock magazine at the adds. Or better still contact Tommy Jobson. Here is his link https://www.horologiumprecision.co.uk/tommy-jobson

I’ll be honest yes I am a little shocked, that’s a lot of tooling required to machine a complete fusee, from the ratchet teeth inside to the Channels for the chain, then the stop lever and lastly ( my problem area ) cutting the teeth on the wheel itself. 

[oldhippy]

There a few videos on Youtube you might like to look up. I know Steffen Erich Pahlow has one where he is using a very old tool that cuts the fusee cone channels. You might have to consider that the replacement has to be made in sections, first the cone then secondly the wheel with teeth then screwed together like most are. I would still like to know what your mentor would suggest. Cant you cut out the worn teeth and solder a brass block in then cut them by hand using needle files You might have to agree to put it down to being beyond repair due to price.  

[JohnR725]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:33 PM, transporter said:

What a whole new fusee? The teeth and the cone are one unit, there is no join, the only join is where the arbor runs up the centre of the fusee. 

You know it be really nice is a picture. The problem is what looks obvious to you may not look obvious to us based on our experiences so having a picture of exactly what were talking about would be quite helpful.

[Martyd]

Hi JohnR727

pictures are on the original topic.

Page 2 

topic title  "Randomly stops Fusee time piece"

[transporter]

Apologies for the late reply, also apologies for my massive brain fart, wasnt concentrationg and totally forgot the " barrell Cap " is seperate, so the hunt continues for either a replacement fusee complete or a replacement barrel cap.

I may be able to gile new teeth on the original but again would need to adjust the depthing to the centre wheel.