Aaaagh! What is it with me?

[rossjackson01]

Aaaagh! What is it with me?

I'm at the stage where, by careful practice, I can do the basics. Doing it as people say it should be done. Buy a running watch for repair. Check it on my Android watch app. beat 1800. Beat error 4.00. Rate +180. Oki-doky, needs work. Can do.

Remove movement. Clean case. Dissemble movement. Clean with peg wood. Clean with lighter fluid and then rinse twice, using ultrasonic. Good to go. Looks clean and I feel great. 

Oil jewels insert gears wheels, place click and barrels. All done to insert the balance. Oh yes says I, good feeling this. 

Place the balance, and the pivot won't seat, Bummer! OK let's be careful and check. Slowly lift off the cock. The balance pivot stays. It had detached form the holders. Aaaaagh! I don't have the skill to deal with that yet. 

Watch placed into the case I keep for repairing. Put away for another day.

I really thought I was going to achieve my first full rebuild. Sick as a parrot.

I'll have to send for a replacement movement for the balance. 

Ah well. Just thought I would vent my feelings. Thanks for your time as you have read this.

Regards

Ross

 

[Kalanag]

I feel with you! Watchmaking can be very frustrating. There are few  other activities where small mistakes are punished that severely…

Edited October 26, 2022 by Kalanag

[Endeavor]

Welcome to the club

Rest assured that we all had our setbacks and disappointments, but funny enough, those turned out to be valuable lessons.

Don't let this get you down, pick up another watch a try again, and again and again. There are things which can not be learned from a book or a video, it takes hands-on experience.

Lots of Suc6 !!

[watchweasol]

Hi Ross we have all been there and got the T shirt many times and learned many a valuable lesson in getting there. So dont beat yourself up it happens. I know its frustrating and you always blame your self  

6 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

here are things which can not be learned from a book or a video, it takes hands-on experience.

Endeavour's statement is 100% true,  it takes experience.

[Neverenoughwatches]

56 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Aaaagh! What is it with me?

I'm at the stage where, by careful practice, I can do the basics. Doing it as people say it should be done. Buy a running watch for repair. Check it on my Android watch app. beat 1800. Beat error 4.00. Rate +180. Oki-doky, needs work. Can do.

Remove movement. Clean case. Dissemble movement. Clean with peg wood. Clean with lighter fluid and then rinse twice, using ultrasonic. Good to go. Looks clean and I feel great. 

Oil jewels insert gears wheels, place click and barrels. All done to insert the balance. Oh yes says I, good feeling this. 

Place the balance, and the pivot won't seat, Bummer! OK let's be careful and check. Slowly lift off the cock. The balance pivot stays. It had detached form the holders. Aaaaagh! I don't have the skill to deal with that yet. 

Watch placed into the case I keep for repairing. Put away for another day.

I really thought I was going to achieve my first full rebuild. Sick as a parrot.

I'll have to send for a replacement movement for the balance. 

Ah well. Just thought I would vent my feelings. Thanks for your time as you have read this.

Regards

Ross

 

We've all been there Ross, you know that, dont let it get to you mate. You will just have to practice that proceedure specifically. To get good at anything we all know practice makes perfect. Good vision a steady hand and dexterity are required you can work and improve upon all these points Ross. I'm not sure what you mean by the balance pivot stays and detaches from the holders, what are you working on Ross ?

[Endeavor]

Here my well worn knee-pads.

I do remember that in the beginning I spent more time underneath my desk than above, searching for parts which flew away

Edited October 26, 2022 by Endeavor

[rossjackson01]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 Ross. I'm not sure what you mean by the balance pivot stays and detaches from the holders, what are you working on Ross ?

Enicar with a FHF ST96 movement.

Cock just lifted off. Looks ok. But beyond my skill at the moment.

I'll not give up. 

Looked in CousinsUK but it's 'restricted'? So am looking for another replacement watch or movement.

Regards

Ross

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by rossjackson01
information and photographs

[ManSkirtBrew]

First of all, I've written this post so many times in my head while fumbling around on the floor for a part, or breaking something I was trying so hard not to. In fact, I recently posted about screwing up the hairspring on a Rolex, of all things. Just gotta take a breath, step away, and come back refreshed another time.

And second, it looks to me like there's still a bit of hairspring stuck in the stud on the balance cock--it's hard to tell definitively from the photo, but take a good look at the stud here and see. If it is, then your hairspring is broken and you may want to find a donor movement.

[Nucejoe]

No problem, proceed as follows.

1- Unpin the stud and clean the stud hole.

2-Put the balance back on the maonplate with impulse jewel in the fork horn and pivot in jewel hole.

3- Open the gap of the regulator arm

4- Put the cock on the mainplate and guide the pivots in jewel hole.

5- Thread the hairspring through the gap of the reg arm and the stud hole and fill its hole with epoxy 5 glue, let cure. 

You have a mobile stud carrier which lets you put the oscioator in beat when regulating.

Good luck

Just now, Nucejoe said:

No problem, proceed as follows.

1- Unpin the stud and clean the stud hole.

2-Put the balance back on the maonplate with impulse jewel in the fork horn and pivot in jewel hole.

3- Open the gap of the regulator arm

4- Put the cock on the mainplate and guide the pivots in jewel hole.

5- Thread the hairspring through the gap of the reg arm and the stud hole and fill its hole with epoxy 5 glue, let cure. 

You have a mobile stud carrier which lets you put the oscioator in beat when regulating.

Good luck

Correction

unpin the stud pin, thats the little pin that attaches hairspring to the stud.

[rossjackson01]

1 hour ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

take a good look at the stud here and see. If it is, then your hairspring is broken and you may want to find a donor movement.

 

ManSkirtBrwew. 

It's not often you are wrong. But you are right again. Yes. Spring broken. Thank you.

Now looking on ebay for replacement.

Nucejoe

Need a better set of tools to get to do what you want. However, it is my aim to get to that standard. Onward and Toolward

Regards. And thanks to you all.

Ross

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by rossjackson01

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Enicar with a FHF ST96 movement.

Cock just lifted off. Looks ok. But beyond my skill at the moment.

I'll not give up. 

Looked in CousinsUK but it's 'restricted'? So am looking for another replacement watch or movement.

Regards

Ross

 

 

It just looks as though the hs needs repinning Ross. It maybe a little short mate but you may still be within timing regulation. If you have a scope give it a go .

[Nucejoe]

 You can unpin the stud with a stout tweezers,  grab the pin, wiggle as you try pulling  the pin out, helps to alternately push on the pin end from the other side. 

You  can also repin the hairspring without special tool. 

Just secure the regulator arm in place so it wouldn't detach, or you can detach the arm to pull the pin out.

ST96 is easy to work on, though judging from the picture  the hairspring looks too short by as much as  five mm.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

First of all, I've written this post so many times in my head while fumbling around on the floor for a part, or breaking something I was trying so hard not to. In fact, I recently posted about screwing up the hairspring on a Rolex, of all things. Just gotta take a breath, step away, and come back refreshed another time.

And second, it looks to me like there's still a bit of hairspring stuck in the stud on the balance cock--it's hard to tell definitively from the photo, but take a good look at the stud here and see. If it is, then your hairspring is broken and you may want to find a donor movement.

They will generally break at that point if its an old carbon spring. It may still be within timing. Repin but leave very little on the spare adjustment end.

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

No problem, proceed as follows.

1- Unpin the stud and clean the stud hole.

2-Put the balance back on the maonplate with impulse jewel in the fork horn and pivot in jewel hole.

3- Open the gap of the regulator arm

4- Put the cock on the mainplate and guide the pivots in jewel hole.

5- Thread the hairspring through the gap of the reg arm and the stud hole and fill its hole with epoxy 5 glue, let cure. 

You have a mobile stud carrier which lets you put the oscioator in beat when regulating.

Good luck

Correction

unpin the stud pin, thats the little pin that attaches hairspring to the stud.

You sometimes see movements from the factory with the hs glued in. Just make sure the hs is squared up with the stud or at least close enough to allow for it being after the glue has set. The repinning will give a little more readjustment if using a new stud pin. Leave extra length and the flat of the pin against the outside of the spring. Twisting the pin will then help to correct the hs's vertical plane. ( The hs has a plane ? I wonder which one, a 747 ? ). Very little tools needed Ross, but definitely a scope, a tweaked set of tweezers can help. If you want to have a go we can all talk you through it mate, it sounds more complicated than it actually is. 

[rossjackson01]

I must admit. The more I read, the more I want to try this repair. It does seem however that I need better magnification. As suggested, a microscope. Therefore, a little time must elapse before I attempt this impossible task.  One of the reasons that I am taking so long to learn is that as a pensioner, I am limited to tool and watch purchases. I have £10 a week spends that I save and purchase when I get to the object in question. No never never for me. I even make my own tools. A barrel spring press from two different shampoo bottle tops. A 5 spoke wheel presto from a presto for £4.99 (the one without the spring down the centre). 

I do practice daily on movements daily. I just don't have the final parts to finish. 

I am loving the hobby.

Ross

[tomh207]

I can absolutely feel with you Ross. Only living on a very small army pension right now myself. It’s the old thing, “when I had the money, I didn’t have the time, now I have the time I don’t have the money “

 

[watchweasol]

Hi Ross   you are at a point where its broke so the worst case will be its still broke,    best you fixed it another lesson learned and another skill to add to the list, As Joe said its doable so have a go , I have done them in the past with a20x loupe, now I'am past that as the eyesight isn't as good as it was.   good luck.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

I must admit. The more I read, the more I want to try this repair. It does seem however that I need better magnification. As suggested, a microscope. Therefore, a little time must elapse before I attempt this impossible task.  One of the reasons that I am taking so long to learn is that as a pensioner, I am limited to tool and watch purchases. I have £10 a week spends that I save and purchase when I get to the object in question. No never never for me. I even make my own tools. A barrel spring press from two different shampoo bottle tops. A 5 spoke wheel presto from a presto for £4.99 (the one without the spring down the centre). 

I do practice daily on movements daily. I just don't have the final parts to finish. 

I am loving the hobby.

Ross

Understand your position perfectly Ross. Without a scope for me personally i wouldn't even attempt it. Bide your time and something will come up it always does.  As something to look into not an ideal scope but quite usable is this Russian one my missus uses sometimes. I tried it a couple of times when she first got and it was ok.  This she only paid 40 quid on ebay for, but i noticed one last week that went for 20. An absolute bargain if it works ok. The magnification is x 8.7 with reasonable field of view, no light source but i found one for her at a carboot that was just a quid. She fiddles around with tiny ladies Timex watches when she has time. 

[grsnovi]

9 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Looked in CousinsUK but it's 'restricted'?

Not sure what you're saying here Ross, I had trouble getting an account w/Cousins but I did eventually. They certainly don't make it easy corresponding with them if you're having trouble.

[Nucejoe]

Weasol is right Ross. A 20X loupe is your mini microscope. 

I am beginging to feel guilty of first degree for recommending these Mumbi specials  to you for practice and like to see one ticking on your wrist. 

Regds

 

 

 

 

[ifibrin]

12 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

 

At this stage in your watchmaking career, I think it’s much easier if you remove the hairspring stud pin from the hairspring stud, clean the hole in the stud, put the balance wheel back on the cock, and re-thread the end of the hairspring through the stud hole. Make sure that the hairspring is concentric when the end is threaded through the stud hole: you may have to bend the end of the terminal curve slightly.

Using an oiler, place the smallest amount of long-setting epoxy into the hole, allowing it to wick itself into the stud hole by capillary action. Then allow the epoxy to set.

It may be possible to use the hairspring stud pin to pin the hairspring, but I think that’s a far more difficult procedure.

[lexacat]

Hi other Ross, I actually just bought a cheap 1600x digital microscope on AliExpress that turned up today. Unfortunately mine has a slight defect (a minor inclusion on the lens) but otherwise it was just plug and play to get working, and the result was better than I was expecting for something that cost $20AUD inc shipping.

I'm trying to do everything on a tight budget too, and I think as far as budget tools go this is a pretty good one. I'm at work at the moment but I can upload some demo shots in a few hours if you're interested in seeing how it looks.

 

[rossjackson01]

3 hours ago, lexacat said:

'm trying to do everything on a tight budget too, and I think as far as budget tools go this is a pretty good one. I'm at work at the moment but I can upload some demo shots in a few hours if you're interested in seeing how it looks

Yes please. 

Ifibrim. Studying hard. Really itching to have a go.

Nucejoe. I'm very happy with what I am doing. I'll get there, never fear.

grsnovi. I have an occount with CousinsUK. Didn't say I was a company. Lucky I guess. Restricted might mean I could only purchase from FHF, but they are eta. Ah well. Looking on ebay.

Edited October 27, 2022 by rossjackson01
spelling

[lexacat]

Heyo, here's a still and a gif of the balance jewel on a seiko taken with the cheap digital microscope. Mine has an inclusion near the center that is causing some issues as stated, but unless you can get a decently priced proper microscope this would be an okay alternative.

I'm still going through it and the software, but at the moment I'm not unhappy with it.

If you can get a halfway decent proper microscope for twice the price of this I'd go for that instead though.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

Studying hard. Really itching to have a go.

i so love your enthusiasm Ross, very inspiring. Its doable mate, try the loupe if you feel confident with them. I'm just not and cant get my depth perception as good as i would like. You have nothing to lose while waiting for a scope.

12 minutes ago, lexacat said:

Heyo, here's a still and a gif of the balance jewel on a seiko taken with the cheap digital microscope. Mine has an inclusion near the center that is causing some issues as stated, but unless you can get a decently priced proper microscope this would be an okay alternative.

I'm still going through it and the software, but at the moment I'm not unhappy with it.

If you can get a halfway decent proper microscope for twice the price of this I'd go for that instead though.

How is it to work under lex, is there any time lag ?

[tomh207]

I believe when you see restricted on cousinsuk site it means that the manufacturer, in this case is ETA a swatch group member has decreed only their authorised service centres can order.