IWC SAV Calibre 74 balance staff pivot broken and balance bend!?

[TibiV]

Hello,

I have a new balance staff  for this but I do not know if that balance can be repaired.

I someone had this situation.

I attach a photo it's very little bend but it'c clear that will not work.

Thank you,

 

Tibi V sr

 

[nickelsilver]

That's normal truing work that would be checked and done any time a staff is changed .

[TibiV]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

That's normal truing work that would be checked and done any time a staff is changed .

Hello Nicksilver, 

Thank you but how can be repaired ? Something I do not understand? 

 

BR

Tibi V sr

[grsnovi]

If you have a replacement staff you will need to remove the old staff and install the new as shown in Mark's video here.

Other videos that may assist:

• Here and
• here.

You may want to try to source an entire replacement balance/cock and hairspring based on your (apparent) relatively "novice" watch repairer status.

[VWatchie]

Here are some additional threads that you might find useful (especially the excellent illustrations made by @HSL).

 

[nickelsilver]

14 hours ago, TibiV said:

Hello Nicksilver, 

Thank you but how can be repaired ? Something I do not understand? 

 

BR

Tibi V sr

I'm assuming your question is regarding the fact that the arms of the balance rim are not true anymore? The repair is done once the new staff has been rivetted and the roller fitted. The balance is held by its staff in a set of truing calipers, and then the rim is literally bent back in to true.

 

There are good descriptions of the process in standard books like Fried's Watchmaker's Manual, and perhaps other members have links to online resources.

 

 

[VWatchie]

3 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

There are good descriptions of the process in standard books like Fried's Watchmaker's Manual,

The Watch Repairer's Manual by Henry B. Fried
ISBN: 978-1-68422-220-9

[JohnR725]

as a reminder before you change the balance staff make sure you measure the old one then measured the new one and make sure they're exactly the same size. It tends to be the older the watch there tends to be variations so you don't want to be surprised after the new staff is in.

then bimetallic balance wheels with split rims due to attend the get bad out a shape. Depends on how soft they ours to how easy that is to happen. So if you replace a balance staff you almost always have to straighten it out. If it's really badly bad I find you can just straighten it with your fingers before even putting it in the truing caliper.

Then at the link below is all sorts a nice stuff to download but you want to go down to the section titled Joseph School of Watch Making. Ideally if you're new to watch repair you should download every single section and read the whole book. Butfor now you want section number two it explains how to true a balance wheel.

 

https://www.mybulova.com/vintage-bulova-catalogs

 

[TibiV]

19 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

as a reminder before you change the balance staff make sure you measure the old one then measured the new one and make sure they're exactly the same size. It tends to be the older the watch there tends to be variations so you don't want to be surprised after the new staff is in.

then bimetallic balance wheels with split rims due to attend the get bad out a shape. Depends on how soft they ours to how easy that is to happen. So if you replace a balance staff you almost always have to straighten it out. If it's really badly bad I find you can just straighten it with your fingers before even putting it in the truing caliper.

Then at the link below is all sorts a nice stuff to download but you want to go down to the section titled Joseph School of Watch Making. Ideally if you're new to watch repair you should download every single section and read the whole book. Butfor now you want section number two it explains how to true a balance wheel.

 

https://www.mybulova.com/vintage-bulova-catalogs

 

Thank you JohnR725, this is very helpful!

[TibiV]

On 10/1/2022 at 10:55 PM, grsnovi said:

If you have a replacement staff you will need to remove the old staff and install the new as shown in Mark's video here.

Other videos that may assist:

• Here and
• here.

You may want to try to source an entire replacement balance/cock and hairspring based on your (apparent) relatively "novice" watch repairer status.

Hello, 

Thank you , I saw all Mark YouTube videos  but I cannot find that one that he is truing a balance ? can you help?

[grsnovi]

The link I made to Mark's video should take you to one entitled:

Fitting a new balance staff to a vintage 1940s cyma www military watch. Repair series

[TibiV]

Hello, 

Thank you for your effort , I do not have an issue to fit a  new balance staff ( last month I fit a new balance on an Omega 40,6 L , same  balance Breguet coil)  but the balance was perfect, my issue is how to true a balance wheel. As you can see on the picture , the balance is not true anymore . Never had this issue  and I do not want to start to repair without seeing somebody doing it , because this IWC 73 is a beauty and I will be proud to make it work again.

But I not sure if Mark or somebody else in a video ( you tube ) made that repair , I was looking to all Marks video's , miss him , I'm looking to chronoglide, vintage watch services (  Stien is great) but I cannot put my finger on that video to see it again.

 

Thank you    

[JohnR725]

11 hours ago, TibiV said:

I do not want to start to repair without seeing somebody doing it

I did make above the reference to the Bulova book. Before videos there were books that's how people learn things ideally even with a video I would find a scrap balance wheel and practice to avoid complications. But if you want a video here's a video and you will note that he referenced reading a book and he's not an expert but here's a video of somebody's journey with the truing caliper

 

 

[clockboy]

23 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I did make above the reference to the Bulova book. Before videos there were books that's how people learn things ideally even with a video I would find a scrap balance wheel and practice to avoid complications. But if you want a video here's a video and you will note that he referenced reading a book and he's not an expert but here's a video of somebody's journey with the truing caliper

 

 

Excellent vid indeed. I now realise I have the wrong style of truing callipers.

[mikepilk]

Excellent video, thanks for posting that @JohnR725

After fitting balance staffs to split balance wheels, I hadn't really considered that distortion around one side of the rivet could cause distortion of that shape. 

When coming across a problem like that, (as I'm a home hobbyist on no schedule), I like to think about it for a day or so - it's easy to rush in and make things worse 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 10/1/2022 at 9:39 PM, VWatchie said:

Here are some additional threads that you might find useful (especially the excellent illustrations made by @HSL).

 

Interesting reading on your first staff change. Not attempted one as yet. I have a fair few to do though. Lots of tips on your old thread Just a thought if you dont mind me adding, just about consideration to the opposite side of the main work. Probably just a matter of course really to check  any defects on the hub of the new staff ?

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I did make above the reference to the Bulova book. Before videos there were books that's how people learn things ideally even with a video I would find a scrap balance wheel and practice to avoid complications. But if you want a video here's a video and you will note that he referenced reading a book and he's not an expert but here's a video of somebody's journey with the truing caliper

 

 

Brilliant video john. I didnt know about the diffent kind of nibs.  Check mine and it has both truing and poising. No index or mounting arm so something i will have to make. Now i have to buy a bigger lathe to make tools. Thanks John less money to feed myself and keep warm. . Notice the drilled holes to allow the pivots to run through.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, mikepilk said:

When coming across a problem like that, (as I'm a home hobbyist on no schedule), I like to think about it for a day or so - it's easy to rush in and make things worse

anybody hobbyist or professional if there's some problems it's usually best to think about it rather than jumping in.

I find often times people what make quick decisions basically end up painting themselves in the corner of the room before they grasp what exactly they're doing.

21 hours ago, TibiV said:

but the balance was perfect, my issue is how to true a balance wheel. As you can see on the picture , the balance is not true anymore . Never had this issue  and I do not want to start to repair without seeing somebody doing it , because this IWC 73 is a beauty and I will be proud to make it work again.

out of curiosity is this the way the balance wheel came?

[TibiV]

Hello all,

I finished reading , as a Romanian and to read in an English technical manual it's really hard to understand properly . I do not have an old balance to practice  , but I'll figure out something until I will be prepared I will do not touch that .

But what you offered , book and video , photos and Knowledge is amazing , that's why I love this hobby , nobody keeps that info for them , they want to spread it .

SO thank you all and I will keep you posted.

Thank you all and

BR Tibi V sr

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, TibiV said:

I do not have an old balance to practice  , but I'll figure out something until I will be prepared I will do not touch that .

Get some used Vostok movements on eBay. Calibre 2409 and/or calibre 2414. Inexpensive and great for practice.

[TibiV]

Good ideea  , 

I ordered 3 movements to repair for 15USD

 

Thank you 

On 10/6/2022 at 8:50 PM, JohnR725 said:

anybody hobbyist or professional if there's some problems it's usually best to think about it rather than jumping in.

I find often times people what make quick decisions basically end up painting themselves in the corner of the room before they grasp what exactly they're doing.

out of curiosity is this the way the balance wheel came?

It was wobbling , the pivot was broken , after I dismantle it I saw that little disorder on balance, my friend told me he escape the watch on floor tiles  ( the glass is broken - that's easy - Cousins )  -  I was thinking , can it be from the shock? 

On 10/6/2022 at 8:50 PM, JohnR725 said:

anybody hobbyist or professional if there's some problems it's usually best to think about it rather than jumping in.

I find often times people what make quick decisions basically end up painting themselves in the corner of the room before they grasp what exactly they're doing.

out of curiosity is this the way the balance wheel came?

It was wobbling , the pivot was broken , after I dismantle it I saw that little disorder on balance, my friend told me he escape the watch on floor tiles  ( the glass is broken - that's easy - Cousins )  -  I was thinking , can it be from the shock?