69’ Wyler Electronic Case back

[Wera0925]

   Recently came across a 1969 Wyler Electronic Mens watch.  It’s NOT a Wyler Vetta.  Just Wyler.  I’m newish to collecting/ repairing.  The case back is pressed really tight down.  There is not a lip on case back or any notched out areas to get any sort of tool, chuck, old school rounded snap back pry opener.  I don’t want to pillage the case back to get in.  The watch as a whole is really really clean.  Did Wyler make a special tool to open these case backs?  I believe it’s the original case back.  It’s pressed with a Wyler waterproof symbol.  Ide like to keep it looking nice as a whole if the movement proves to still work after I get it off.  

[JohnR725]

always nice with questions like this if you would give us pictures so we can see what you're seeing.

[Wera0925]

You can see where a past someone has used some sort of “tool” to try to get case back off.  One of my pet peeves is when the wrong tool is used for the job.  Part of my hobby is in the refurbish process.  I don’t care so much about the monetary value.  It’s in my personal cool value.  So…. Ide like to keep new damage to a minimum.  I can find little to nothing about this particular model.  A Wyler add is the most I can locate.  Not sure if I am typing wrong words, etc….  But nothing.  There are no notches or lips or ridges or grooves anywhere on case or case back. I cannot imagine Wyler would ok a design flaw like this without having a specialized tool to avoid damage when removing case back.  Am I wrong?  Help!   My wife and I have spent many hours on the internet searching.  We’ve come up with nothing.  A Wyler Vetta is as close as we come.  It’s NOT.  Just a Wyler.  

[LittleWatchShop]

I notice that the shield seems to align perfectly with the lugs.  This leads me to believe that it is not a screw back (never seen a screw back that seated perfectly to align a logo--but it could happen).  Are you sure that it is not a front-loader? 

I would first remove the crystal to see if it is a front-loader (please post a picture of the dial side). It would be obvious if it were because you would see at least some forward movement of the dial side outward from the case. EDIT--on second thought, since it is electronic, I seriously doubt it is a front-loader.

If it is clear that it cannot be a front-loader, I would use a safety razor to slip between the (what appears to be) back...working around the circumference.  Exercise caution and don't cut yourself.

Edited August 19, 2022 by LittleWatchShop

[Kalanag]

Examples show that @LittleWatchShop is absolutely right. As soon as the back is screwed it doesn‘t line up. Case backs without flats or notches for an opening wrench align perfectly. They are either snap on or solid (frontloader).

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Kalanag

[LittleWatchShop]

I love these logos.  As an electrical engineer, I particularly like the inductor-battery-switch shown on the electronic watch.

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I notice that the shield seems to align perfectly with the lugs.  This leads me to believe that it is not a screw back (never seen a screw back that seated perfectly to align a logo--but it could happen).  Are you sure that it is not a front-loader? 

yes that perfectly aligned case back definitely is an issue.

We need a picture of the side of the case and a better picture of the front of the case as I don't think the back is coming off well not without a lot of force and then it may never go back on again

[LittleWatchShop]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

yes that perfectly aligned case back definitely is an issue.

We need a picture of the side of the case and a better picture of the front of the case as I don't think the back is coming off well not without a lot of force and then it may never go back on again

But the battery must be changed

[HectorLooi]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

But the battery must be changed

I've worked on a Ebel ladies quartz with a really user unfriendly design. It's a front loader with a monocoque case. To change the battery, everything has to come out to get to the battery. A real pain to work on.

[Kalanag]

5 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I've worked on a Ebel ladies quartz with a really user unfriendly design. It's a front loader with a monocoque case. To change the battery, everything has to come out to get to the battery. A real pain to work on.

Yep! This Ebel has a split stem as most front loaders have.

Here is an example of a Wyler frontloader case where the solid case back looks like a snap on but isn‘t. The bezel has to come off.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/132960648640

Edited August 20, 2022 by Kalanag

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

But the battery must be changed

yes batteries are supposed to be changed but what if you have a watch with rechargeable batteries what if it's entirely sealed a block of plastic then it can't ever be changed and yes they did make a watch like that once it was solar powered they never anticipated that the nickel cadmium batteries might need to be replaced at some point in time in the universe

oh and then there is a minor problem with the back if the back is not to fit a stem which is sometimes common and that would explain why it's in perfect alignment but usually backs that are meant to come off will have some place for you to pry the back off. Which is why it's still be nice to see a side view with a case to see if maybe it does go out through the front.

[LittleWatchShop]

7 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

yes batteries are supposed to be changed but what if you have a watch with rechargeable batteries what if it's entirely sealed a block of plastic then it can't ever be changed and yes they did make a watch like that once it was solar powered they never anticipated that the nickel cadmium batteries might need to be replaced at some point in time in the universe

oh and then there is a minor problem with the back if the back is not to fit a stem which is sometimes common and that would explain why it's in perfect alignment but usually backs that are meant to come off will have some place for you to pry the back off. Which is why it's still be nice to see a side view with a case to see if maybe it does go out through the front.

Yeah, and this may be one of those nuclear powered watches--I remember hearing about them back in the 60's

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Yeah, and this may be one of those nuclear powered watches--I remember hearing about them back in the 60's

the nuclear powered watch was something different. Elgin with some other company did pioneer nuclear powered batteries which I think were used in other stuff I don't think it ever made it into a watch and definitely not a watch of anybody had in their possession.

The other watch I talk about it have to go look it up was early LED watch with solar panels all casting transparent red plastic with rather sizable NiCad batteries conveniently buried in the plastic forever sealing the fate of the watch of not being practical to change the batteries. Oh and then as far as setting went there were magnetic reed switches with magnets so the watch truly was waterproof

[KarlvonKoln]

If anyone is taking bets, I'm going with "front loader".  I've worked on a couple unmarked Wylers and both were front loaders.

[Wera0925]

Wait!!!!    Holy crap!  Could it actually be a front loader?   This is the first time I’ve seen this seam on the front side!  Ugh.  I don’t want to start gouging if it’s not an actual seam though.  Thoughts? Suggestions?  

[Kalanag]

Roughly measure the diameter of the dial and estimate if it is bigger than the expected opening in the back. If so it‘s a frontloader for sure.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, Wera0925 said:

I don’t want to start gouging if it’s not an actual seam though.  Thoughts? Suggestions?  

Safety razor blade.  I would not hesitate.  As you insert the blade, you will see some give...then proceed.

[jdm]

3 hours ago, Wera0925 said:

Ugh.  I don’t want to start gouging if it’s not an actual seam though.  

As noted already the seam is there and clearly visible. If it was not there, it would be called a monocoque or one piece case. But these are not as nearly common like front loader cases made in two or three pieces.

Edited August 20, 2022 by jdm

[Wera0925]

Ok folks please be patient with me.  It is a front loader.  My next question….  How am I supposed to get to the backside to get at battery?   Is it like doing the same to a pocket watch?   If so I don’t know how.  What’s the best way to get to the battery?

[LittleWatchShop]

Some front-loaders (but not all--e.g. Stellaris electric) have two-piece stems.  You can generally tell by how "floppy" the crown feels, but take that with a grain of salt.  For two-piece stems the general practice is to just pull the crown off with appropriate force.  HOWEVER!!  I know one case, MIDO, that you do NOT do this.  Mido says to put the crown in a certain position and then drop the movement out.  Does anyone else use this scheme?  Dunno...experts will have to weigh in.

[jdm]

8 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

 I know one case, MIDO, that you do NOT do this.  Mido says to put the crown in a certain position and then drop the movement out.  Does anyone else use this scheme?  Dunno...experts will have to weigh in.

Mido is not the only case. Myself and others always advise to try to remove the mov.t by gently lifting it while slowly rotating the stem, and refit it with the cuts vertical and aligned. That can work for any maker and model, and save any stress to the joint. However, for some reason, you often read about nail clippers and forceful pushing. Not in my book.

[Wera0925]

Y’all have no idea how helpful these suggestions have been.  New update:  Have the front off.  When the stem is in the normal run position the movement will move a little.  When pulled to the setting position, it doesn’t seem to want to move at all.  I’ve gently but forcibly pulled on the stem and it isn’t budging so I am thinking it isn’t a split stem.  On a positive note….  When I finally got the crystal and bezel off I twisted the crown in set position and the second hand swept forward for 20 seconds or so.  When I reversed and reset back an hour the second hand swept back around 20 seconds.  Honestly….  I madly love watches.  Is it worth my time and effort or by what’s going on with the movement, an I spinning my wheels for nothing?   I m learning which is always cool but….   

[LittleWatchShop]

7 minutes ago, Wera0925 said:

Y’all have no idea how helpful these suggestions have been.  New update:  Have the front off.  When the stem is in the normal run position the movement will move a little.  When pulled to the setting position, it doesn’t seem to want to move at all.  I’ve gently but forcibly pulled on the stem and it isn’t budging so I am thinking it isn’t a split stem.  On a positive note….  When I finally got the crystal and bezel off I twisted the crown in set position and the second hand swept forward for 20 seconds or so.  When I reversed and reset back an hour the second hand swept back around 20 seconds.  Honestly….  I madly love watches.  Is it worth my time and effort or by what’s going on with the movement, an I spinning my wheels for nothing?   I m learning which is always cool but….   

Excellent tests.  Sure seems like the back has to come off using the same method you used to remove the front.  My concern for you is that both the bezel and the back will be a VERY tight fit and you will not be able to put them back on with the proper tool.

[Wera0925]

I am feeling the same.  Reminds me of when I worked on an Elgin pocket watch. Even with front and back off it took some work to get the movement out.  I know it’s only a Wyler Electronic but I hate not being able to get a 5 dollar Timex Easy Reader running.  I’m diving into this one because I’ve run across a handful of Old electronic watches.  I’ve a number of Timex, including their dynabeat. I’ve also a Bulova Electra that looks like it jumped off a man’s wrist and teleported to my mailbox.  All brown and gold sunburst dial.  I’m definitely a mechanical movement and not real satisfied with quartz.  I don’t think it’s just a fad, lol.  Quartz to me is like an electric car.  Something is lost without the smell of spent fuel.  They have their place mind you, but something is lost.  It’s still a watch and I have a hard time giving up on it.  This one frustrates me and I’ve had to hide my 4 pound square metal adjustment tool several times so I didn’t use it to try and crack open the case.  

Just want to say as well thank you.  I’ve been looking for a forum to ask questions and ACTUALLY get some sort of intelligent response, for over a year.  This site is the first that I’ve ever gotten an answer with.  So I am definitely here to stay.  I’ve purchased a dozen vintage mechanical movements last night Hamilton, Elgin, Waltham, Wittnauer and a pretty little Bulova 30 jewel automatic with date at 4 position, and I am sure will be asking many many questions.  It’s great to finally find a group that shares my excitement and love for them.  

[jdm]

 

59 minutes ago, Wera0925 said:

I am thinking it isn’t a split stem. 

Of course it's not. With a caseback there is no reason for a split stem.

 

33 minutes ago, Wera0925 said:

. know it’s only a Wyler Electronic but I hate not being able to get a 5 dollar Timex Easy Reader running.

The cheaper the watch, the harder to repair. They were not made to be serviced, the idea being you would just buy another one. That's why all professionals refuse to work on cheap watches, beside that their time would cost many times their material value, they could have serious trouble fixing it.

 

33 minutes ago, Wera0925 said:

I’m diving into this one because I’ve run across a handful of Old electronic watches. 

Electric / electronic / quartz digital or analog are all the hardest ones to repair without a donor watch for parts or complete replacement. Watch repair is best learnt on simple, largish mechanical mov.ts, as discussed below

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by jdm