Fusee hour wheel!!!!

[transporter]

So here I am still working on this fusee for a customer, ok I’m down with covid at the moment so not firing on all cylinders.

The pictures are of the hour wheel on the motion works after it came out the new cleaner ( my old L&R broke down, anyone know of anyone that repairs them? ) 

I have no idea of what was there before the clean but it isn’t there now. This has been a troublesome movement from the start, with the fusee and centre wheel depthing way out to the fusee cone upper plate pivot badly in need of attention, and now this.

Im currently running it without the motion works attached as they seem to be the problem of the erratic running and stopping, so now the hunt goes on for a new wheel or do you think is repairable with a bush, I’m thinking repairable if I can get a bush the correct outside diameter. 

[watchweasol]

Hi Given the circumstances and the remote possibility of finding a new wheel I would be inclined to drill it out and turn up a new bush on the lathe, the core /bush that in the wheel is beyond doing anything with so best to rebush .  More work granted but it will make a satisfying repair.      good luck

[oldhippy]

watchweasol has given you the best answer. You will never find another wheel that fits. 

[transporter]

Yes, I was heading down the bush route, just got to wait for my lathe to arrive back from repair and I’ll start turning. 
I might be lucky and find a longcase bush that might fit. If not maybe even a sleeve insert? Lots of ideas to try, there is really no torque on the wheel of any pressure so I’ll do some research on this fix and report back with the results.

[watchweasol]

One wonders how it got in that state.  I know fusee clocks have powerful springs , probably a lack of mainenance and lubrication.

[oldhippy]

I would say something hard flaked off and kept going around in the bush which had no oil and wore a dirty big chunk out.  

[Tmuir]

I was thinking the bush was probably cast and wondered if it off gassed when it was made which left hollows, or in the brass and just be luck they weren't drilled into when the bush was made and then wear over the years opened them up.

It could just be the light but it looks like some parts are copper in colour which is usually what happens to brass when it dezincs.

Either way I've never seen such a worn out bush.

[oldhippy]

You would expect to see imperfections if it had been cast brass, but this part isn’t.

[RichardHarris123]

On the third picture it's obvious that something has pushed on the outside of the Bush. It's pushed inwards. 

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20 hours ago, Tmuir said:

I was thinking the bush was probably cast and wondered if it off gassed when it was made which left hollows, or in the brass and just be luck they weren't drilled into when the bush was made and then wear over the years opened them up.

It could just be the light but it looks like some parts are copper in colour which is usually what happens to brass when it dezincs.

Either way I've never seen such a worn out bush.

I would say you bang on mate, it is indeed hollers out in places. 
im guessing I can heat it up and melt the silver solder that looks to be holding it in place and remove it from the wheel.

I will then be able to turn another one and drill it through before soldering the new one in place.

Well I heated up the solder and removed it. Better than drilling it out. As you can see it’s blown quite badly so not sure what’s happened here.

Just waiting on some brass stock to arrive and my larger lathe from the repair shop. Then I’ll turn a new bit.

[watchweasol]

Luckily it not imanaged to touch the barrel, but that bush sure ins a mess, Tmuir is i think right in the possible cause of the breakdown.

[oldhippy]

Now I can see that bush is cast brass. 

[Tmuir]

That bush is worth keeping and adding to 'The Trophies Cabinet' of horrors found when repairing a clock, I've never seen anything like that.

I would of thought it was just soft soldered in place, not silver soldered as 'silver solder' (brazing) is not often down in clocks with the exception to repairing some steelwork as hard soldering tempers the brass.

[transporter]

4 hours ago, Tmuir said:

That bush is worth keeping and adding to 'The Trophies Cabinet' of horrors found when repairing a clock, I've never seen anything like that.

I would of thought it was just soft soldered in place, not silver soldered as 'silver solder' (brazing) is not often down in clocks with the exception to repairing some steelwork as hard soldering tempers the brass.

Ahhh now I’m under the understanding that silver soldering is basically soldering but with a different content of ingredients to the solder. Brazing to me is with arid and a much higher temperature ( 650oC) if I remember correctly. 
Anyway, yes I’ll be keeping that part, my mentor said to me yesterday that he remembers a local BHI meeting ( I missed it ) where the members discussed parts of old clocks that have done similar in the modern ultrasonic cleaners.
I can assure you and myself that the damage seen wasn’t apparent before it went into the cleaner.

 

[Tmuir]

The terminology varies from place to place and now that low melting solder (tin / lead) to meet modern safety does not contain lead and has a percentage of silver in it instead it has made it even more confusing as its modern lead free solder is also now sometimes called Silver solder by people as it does contain silver.

Tin / Lead and modern replacement lead free solder is also referred to as soft soldering, these solders have a low melt point.

Then you have hard solder which have high melt points where you basically need to get the metal to glow before the solder will flow. This usually has a much higher content of silver in the rods and prier to lead been banned in soft solder was the old solder that contained silver hence why it is referred by some as silver soldering, or silver brazing, or just brazing.

Then of course there is also spelter brazing, and the list goes on.

When I hear silver soldering I see this as brazing where you have get the metal hot enough to glow, but I know not everyone thinks this, it can get confusing.

[transporter]

Update on hour wheel, I melted the solder and got the two parts parted. 
A quick measuring session and a wait for my lathe to be returned and a new one is turned.

Just need to file the top and tap the hole for the hour hand screw. 
Customer is more than happy
 

[watchweasol]

Hi  a sterling job well done .  Will probably last for years.   excellent.

[transporter]

Thanks mate, will finish it off this week and attach the motion works back on the movement .