Watch running slow - Looking for advice based on some facts

[WA123231]

Hi, I have a watch movement: FHF175. I had recently replaced the main spring. Prior to that replacement, it was running pretty good time wise. Now t is running slow. Actually quite slower. I believe its running about 1 minute slower each hour. So after 10 hours for instance it would be 10 minutes off. FYI, I put the main spring in the barrel by hand. As well, adjusting the regulator doesn't make a difference. The only parts I took apart were the ones to get to the Main spring barrel.

Everything was put back together, it runs but slower.

Yes maintenance may be in order but based on the above, can I get some educated ideas of what may or have happened. Also if there are some simple tests I can run (I don't have any equipment, etc.) can you let me know so I can provide extra info for debugging. Also I guess a main culprit is the main spring replacement but if so, why and how. Also, why would the regulator not change anything (from what I can see) . Or maybe I touched something I shouldn't have when taking out the barrel, etc. I know there can be many reasons for slowness but can you help me based on the above details.

Thanks.

[grsnovi]

5 hours ago, WA123231 said:

I guess a main culprit is the main spring

I'm guessing that you haven't done (m)any other watch repairs? When you purchased your replacement spring was it wound tightly inside a cardboard sheet such that you were simply able to pop it into the barrel? Or, did you manually wind the spring into the barrel? Is it possible that you distorted the spring? Were you wearing finger cots that might have gotten into the spring coils?

Hopefully somebody with much more experience than I have can help.

[oldhippy]

Part repairs can be a pain. It doesn't take much to upset the workings of a watch. I advise you to clean and oil the whole movement. Treat it as a new repair. 

[Nucejoe]

Barrel lid might be pushing on main spring coil, the lid should sit flush level in the barrel and not push on the main spring .

Bottom of tbe barrel should have smooth surface, polish it if its not. 

Are you sure the new mainspring ( replacement ) has the right strength. 

[Kalanag]

Take a cell phone and do a slo-mo video. That will show if the amplitude is o.k. (should be significantly more than one full turn from stop to stop).

If so the problem is not the mainspring. The observation that you can not regulate the speed points towards the hair spring. Please inspect the hair spring carefully!

Edited May 31, 2022 by Kalanag

[anilv]

Re mainspring.

Was it new? I'm curious as new mainsprings come in a washer and if by "I put the main spring in the barrel by hand" you mean you pushed the spring from the washer into the barrel you should be fine.

If you mean you pushed it in by hand, ie a fully unwound mainspring which you worked your way around then potentially the mainspring could be out of flat and this would affect timekeeping but usually towards the end of its power curve..ie it will run worse the closer it gets to the end (fully unwound).

If you have replaced the mainspring it could be the spec is a bit far off. Do you have the old spring handy to compare? thickness, height and lenght play a part, you can have some leeway with the length but thickness and height would affect timekeeping if they are significantly different.

Anilv

 

 

[JohnR725]

15 hours ago, WA123231 said:

I had recently replaced the main spring

 

15 hours ago, WA123231 said:

Prior to that replacement, it was running pretty good time wise

if the watch was running fine timewise why did you change the mainspring?

then I don't know why I'm going to ask I don't suppose you have a timing machine? The title timing machine may imply that it's used for regulating the watch but it's a marvelous diagnostic tool.

15 hours ago, WA123231 said:

As well, adjusting the regulator doesn't make a difference.

this is a place for timing machine would be good because maybe the balance wheel is working just fine may be a watch is keeping time maybe it's not the balance wheel issue?

4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

It doesn't take much to upset the workings of a watch.

without a timing machine we can't determine whether you've upset the balance wheel or something else? Like if there's a problem with the components on the dial side like you put pressure on the center wheel and pulled up baby something slipping on the other side.

although looking at the picture of the watch of the link below it looks pretty simple although amusingly this site actually indicates there is multiple variations of this watch looks like the mainsprings may all be the same but a lot of times we get variations you can have interesting problems come up.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&FHF_175

 

[WA123231]

Hi. Thank you all for your responses. I'll go through them and see if I have more questions or more info to provide.

I am not skilled in watch repair and this is my first watch that I have attempted to fix. The main spring broke at the tip. I had initially tried to get it repaired by a professional but the quotes were through the roof and I was not getting allot of face time with the repair shops to actually discuss the issue, etc. I think that was more of the problem. I was willing to pay but found it difficult to not even get much time to actually talk to the specialists about the issue, etc. 

The spring was purchased online and it was for my movement (I believe) and came wound up. The spring was unwound from the original package when I spun it into the barrel by hand. I didn't use finger cots. At the end of the day what I really wanted to do was to get it to run again so I could learn from this but also show that the main spring was the culprit to rule out any major issues. If need be I can get a new spring and get it in the right way but this is at least a good way for me to explore more and perhaps learn a few more things about watches and maintenance. Actually I would love to just have had someone repair it but a 800 dollar quote for a 200 dollar or less watch without being able to explain that I was just looking for help with the main spring was a bit too steep for me. Actually, I lost the click spring in the process. I was quoted 50 dollars for it when I got the part on line for 3. So I was just a bit weary. I'm assuming at least in terms of the click spring I got for 3 bucks which looked like the original , was not going to effect much in terms of time keeping. I understand there is a level of quality control, etc. when taking in for a repair but I just wanted an expert to replace the main spring first to just get it running and see how it was running before doing a full overall. and was finding that hard to do. That being said I'm pretty sure I'm not even close to doing a cleaning, etc. but I can try some simpler things at least to debug this. The next thing I'll do is use  stop watch to get a better level of accuracy in terms of how much time i'm loosing and provide an update. Thank you.

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, WA123231 said:

Actually I would love to just have had someone repair it but a 800 dollar quote for a 200 dollar or less watch without being able to explain that I was just looking for help with the main spring was a bit too steep for me.

out of curiosity where in the world do you live?

I find it interesting out there that there are other discussion groups one in particular were these people collect watches primarily. When the price of watch repair comes up there very unhappy. That's because they have collections of watches and having a collection of watches serviced will become very expensive and that is considered very unacceptable. Fortunately there are people in the same discussion group who will service watches for practically nothing because are doing it as a hobby. This perpetuates the myth that watch repair should cost practically nothing.

the meaning of the above paragraph I usually get irritated with people who complain about the cost of watch repair because their total failure to grasp the repairing a watch should cost money.  but $800 there's something not right with the story at all is that price is extremely unacceptable? but conceivably there are some factors that we don't know about.

 

6 hours ago, WA123231 said:

I was not getting allot of face time with the repair shops to actually discuss the issue,

it be nice of a better description of where you took the watch to? like for instance jewelry stores often claim to have a watchmaker on premise unless you actually see the watchmaker they usually send the work out. If they send the work out then the pricing becomes interesting. Usually they double occasionally my triple the price or even more depending upon things. It's usually best if you can find the watchmaker directly. But if you're in a repair shop an actual watch repair shop and you can't get face time with the watchmaker I have no something doesn't sound right with your story not at all.

then typically mainsprings do not break. Modern mainsprings usually come in packages that say unbreakable. But I've seen modern mainsprings break so they will break. But typically if you ever broken mainspring you're going to have other issues like when was the last time the watch was serviced? In other words typically it's not like I can change the mainspring of my watch and everything will be perfect again there was a reason why it broke and a full servicing is needed.

at least you picked a nice movement to learn on? Looking on eBay right now I see you can buy an entire used movement for less than $50. So as a worst-case scenario you can get replacement movement and parts are still available. As opposed to working on some obscure watch that no parts are available or something expensive like Omega Rolex where things get really expensive really fast.

 

[WA123231]

Hi John. No I don't think that watch repairs should necessarily be inexpensive and I understand that most professional repair shops have a standard to keep to which may increase the cost of the testing and what they say they need to replace in terms of parts and service. They also have to run a business and have costs, etc.

Well here is the full story. The watch was running pretty good and keeping good time. One morning I tried to wind the watch and it just kept winding. I got to the main spring to check it out because I was comfortable doing that after some research (I was not planning on learning to fix a watch before this point). I am a rookie so for one reason or another I popped out the spring to look at it. It was actually fine but in my attempt to put it back in (I should say attempts), I broke the tip off, not to mention distort the spring. I also lost the click spring. When I started investigating more, I came to the conclusion that the main spring was okay but the ratchet wheel was probably a bit loose. Anyway that's what I think but I'm sure others can point out if this is incorrect. Either way, I was pretty sure that the watch did not suffer catastrophic damages. I really just wanted to get it running again to get a baseline and then I would determine next steps in terms of servicing it if required.

I took it to a small shop and was basically told him if I could just get help with getting a main spring, click spring and have it put in. If it worked great, if not, then I he did what I had asked and thats that. From what I recall I was brushed off. Take that with an grain of salt but that's kind of what happened. I took it to another place and tried to explain that I was just looking for this help but was told that the watch would need to go through an estimate process. Yes I can understand this is a business and there are standard procedures. The cost came from the parts and also for a mandatory full servicing. I was just a bit thown off with the click spring being 50 bucks and just made me think I  should do a bit more learning and research on my own before getting it serviced. The watch is not expensive but It has some sentimental value. But at the end of the day its just a watch.

So I found out how to get a main spring, click spring, got them in the watch, learned allot and at the end of the day I set the watch 5 minutes ahead at the start of the day. No issues with the places I went to but it just would have been nice to be able to explain my situation and see if I could get support based on that.