BTCo movement?

[rossjackson01]

Hello again.

I believe I have found the name of the movement of my project. BTco

Does anyone have any knowledge of, or knows where parts can be purchased. I need a barrel arbour (screw snapped at head).

I have attached a photograph of my movement, and an internet information of similar. The keyless works are the same, but on opposite sides. (negative reversed?) any advise ofr help would be appreciated.

Regards

Ross

[Nucejoe]

 Thats Beguelin watch company, they owned the Damas brand and I have seen their movements in Galo watches plus a dozen other companies, also supplied parts or movements to Rolex.

Have you check julesborel.com? 

Regds

 

[rossjackson01]

I've looked on the site. 

As you can see, the movement that I have (top image) is the exact reverse of the original on the experts site (bottom image). The expert from the site I contacted, says they are are not the same make. Back to the drawing board.  He also said the only way to get a barrel arbor is to obtain donor movements. The Arbors may, or may not be compatible. Suggests I try to remove the broken screw. 

I think that s my best option. I'm going to try to make a groove and attempt to screw the broken shaft out.  Attaching a photograph of the arbor. Awaiting a set of fine files. Wish me luck.

Regards

Ross

Edited April 26, 2022 by rossjackson01
copy photograph removed

[Nucejoe]

Good luck Ross.

[grsnovi]

10 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

is the exact reverse of the original on the experts site (bottom image).

Well, parts of it are similar (but not exact). It would likely be good if you knew more about your movement so you could find an identical donor. One advantage of going with a known "brand" I suppose.

I'm still in limbo on my Elgin 313 but I do have a second (which I'm likely going to have to cannibalize to get one working - not sure which one t will be yet).

Did your movement come out of a case or did you just get a movement?

Have you posted an image of the other side?

[rossjackson01]

As requested

 

[grsnovi]

By any chance have you asked here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/watchcraft

[rossjackson01]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:51 PM, grsnovi said:

By any chance have you asked here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/watchcraft

Thank you for the information. Not on facebook. Have chosen not to be

Ross

[grsnovi]

If you'd like, I could post your images there and see if anyone can identify the movement.

[rossjackson01]

16 hours ago, grsnovi said:

If you'd like, I could post your images there and see if anyone can identify the movement.

Yes please. Thank you.

Regards

Ross

[rossjackson01]

On 4/26/2022 at 8:06 PM, rossjackson01 said:

More advice please

I'm progressing with my skills and now feel able to attempt restoration of this family piece. When I first started with the wonderful hobby, I jumped straight in and disassembled this old watch without knowledge. I created a problem in that I over tightened a screw into the arbour of the mainspring barrel. The head has sheared off. Maybe it was the left hand threaded screw, not sure.

I would like to attempt now to remove the offending screw thread. I can't drill. Don't' have the skill or equipment. However, I have become aware of the use of Alum powder to dissolve the metal. I would like to give it a go.

My question is this. Looking at the pictures, does anyone think that the arbour is of the same constituent as the screw? If I try the Allum, will it dissolve both items?

Thank you in anticipation.

Added information. Looked thought the content of the watch parts. No left hand thread screw.  Bummer!

Regards. Ross

Edited February 17, 2023 by rossjackson01
more information

[nickelsilver]

The barrel arbor is steel, so it would dissolve along with the screw.

[watchweasol]

Hi Ross Unfortunate indeed, The use of Alum powder to dissolve steel is useful knowledge but a steel screw in a steel arbour will only lead to tears.  There are broken screw removers sold by Ali Express  (similar to if not the same as Bergeon) which are inexpensive.  Yes its another tool to the armoury so hide it from the wife. But a bit safer than freehand drilling. Attached is the tool in question.

[rossjackson01]

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Ross Unfortunate indeed, The use of Alum powder to dissolve steel is useful knowledge but a steel screw in a steel arbour will only lead to tears.  There are broken screw removers sold by Ali Express  (similar to if not the same as Bergeon) which are inexpensive.  Yes its another tool to the armoury so hide it from the wife. But a bit safer than freehand drilling. Attached is the tool in question.

I've joined AliExpress. Yes it is cheaper than ebay.  The drill is now in my 'wish list'. It does mean that I now need to source a left-hand threaded screw with a large flat head. No one seems to sell left handed screws. Very odd. 

[Marc]

13 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Ross Unfortunate indeed, The use of Alum powder to dissolve steel is useful knowledge but a steel screw in a steel arbour will only lead to tears.  There are broken screw removers sold by Ali Express  (similar to if not the same as Bergeon) which are inexpensive.  Yes its another tool to the armoury so hide it from the wife. But a bit safer than freehand drilling. Attached is the tool in question.

I have to confess to being somewhat confused by this tool as to me it looks like someone has seen a picture of the Bergeon tool, tried to copy it, and got it wrong.

The Bergeon tool only works on through holes and works by clamping the broken screw between two toothed bits as shown in the pic.

This holds the screw still whilst you rotate the part around it to unscrew it. Because the gripping force is between the two bits the friction between the screw and the part is not increased.

It doesn't really work very well on blind holes because you can only push on the broken screw from one end, which forces the threads on the screw against the threads in the part, increasing friction and making it more difficult to turn. Add to that the fact that the part would have to be pressed tight against the tool frame which would make it impossible to turn anyway.

Given that most (if not all) arbors are blind holes I don't think that even the Bergeon tool will help in this situation.

What puzzles me about the Ali-X tool is that the supplied bits appear to be twist drills, suggesting that the tool is used to drill out the damaged screw. However for that to work you would need to be able to rotate either the part or the drill, and there doesn't seem to be any way of doing this. There doesn't even seem to be any means of holding the part.

I suppose that it would still be possible to use the tool the same way as the Bergeon on a through hole with a drill bit  pushing into each end of the broken screw, however I doubt that this would be as effective with the tips of the drills being designed for cutting rather than gripping.

Either way I don't think that either the Bergeon or the Chinese "copy" is going to be very helpful which a screw broken off in a blind hole. The best way that I have found to remove the screw in these situations is to clamp the part in a vise with the hole pointing up so that I can look down on it, preferably though a microscope, and then using two fine sewing needles to apply a turning force to what ever topography the top of the broken screw offers. Providing the other end of the screw hasn't bottomed in the blind hole causing the threads to bind this should work every time.