Non working practice watch from charity shop, Citron movement

[valleyguy]

I got a non running Citron watch from a charity shop for practice as i didn't want to mess anything up that was already working as this is my first attempt on a mechanical movemen. If i can pick your brains to try help me get the keyless works to work properly.

When i got the watch, the hands would not turn as when you pulled the stem out, the winding stem would come straight out of the movement,  it couldn't be wound up either.

once i'd taken the movement out of the case, hands off, the two little screws holding the dial on the side are missing the holes are there but the dial is glued on, dial comes away with a razor blade.

I look the movement over with a loupe the first thing i notice is that the reatining clip holding the bottom balance jewel is broken, i'm thinking this is the original reason the watch stopped working.

I start to strip the keyless works down the cover plate first, to me it looks like somebody as already taken it apart then put it back together after not been able to get it working.

I removed the the clutch lever spring, clutch lever and the setting lever. when i replace the setting lever and apply pressure on top with my tweezers and pull the wind stem out the stem doesn't come alway out from the movment, if i move the clutch on the stem with tweezers it allows me to wind the watch as i can feel tension on the main spring, then with clutch moved the other way i can see the hour wheel move when i wind the stem so they seem to work.

I replace the set lever, clutch lever, clutch lever spring then cover plate, the movement now can be wound but when i pull the winding stem out to move the hands it still pulls straight out of the movement and doesn't move the clutch lever, i've assemble and dis assemble the keyless works 4 times with no luck. when i put the the set lever and clutch lever in and apply pressure with teweezers to the top of the set lever it moves the clutch lever as if it's going to work when assembled but each time it doesn't the winding stem pulls straight out, i've checked the winding stem it looks ok.

Does anyone have an idea whwere i'm going wrong or away to check why the winding stem pull straight out of the movement.

I was tidying away as i was working on the kitchen table, put the movemnt back in the case i noticed the balance was moving, so the small bottom jewel needs a a new retaining clip, i think this was the original reason the watch stopped working and who ever took it apart first naffed up the keyless works.

Any pointers for things i can check with the keyless works, this seems to be the main problem now.

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by valleyguy

[MrRoundel]

If it doesn't take a lot to yank the stem out of the movement, it would seem that the detent is not engaging deeply enough into the stem recess. There should be a little protruding pin/nub from the bottom side where it engages with the stem. When you tighten the detent screw that pin gets pushed down into the recess. It should hold through a pretty good tug. Then again, if you lubricate things properly (Which I have known do not do.) you shouldn't have to tug particularly hard do get the hands to set.

If that doesn't take you to the cause then you'll probably have to post some images of the keyless work, with an explanation of what is being looked at. Good luck. Cheers.

BTW, I am taking it for granted that this is a Swiss watch, or at least one the uses the Swiss style of keyless works.

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, valleyguy said:

I got a non running Citron watch from a charity shop for practice as i didn't want to mess anything up that was already working as this is my first attempt on a mechanical movemen. If i can pick your brains to try help me get the keyless works to work properly.

When i got the watch, the hands would not turn as when you pulled the stem out, the winding stem would come straight out of the movement,  it couldn't be wound up either.

once i'd taken the movement out of the case, hands off, the two little screws holding the dial on the side are missing the holes are there but the dial is glued on, dial comes away with a razor blade.

I look the movement over with a loupe the first thing i notice is that the reatining clip holding the bottom balance jewel is broken, i'm thinking this is the original reason the watch stopped working.

I start to strip the keyless works down the cover plate first, to me it looks like somebody as already taken it apart then put it back together after not been able to get it working.

I removed the the clutch lever spring, clutch lever and the setting lever. when i replace the setting lever and apply pressure on top with my tweezers and pull the wind stem out the stem doesn't come alway out from the movment, if i move the clutch on the stem with tweezers it allows me to wind the watch as i can feel tension on the main spring, then with clutch moved the other way i can see the hour wheel move when i wind the stem so they seem to work.

I replace the set lever, clutch lever, clutch lever spring then cover plate, the movement now can be wound but when i pull the winding stem out to move the hands it still pulls straight out of the movement and doesn't move the clutch lever, i've assemble and dis assemble the keyless works 4 times with no luck. when i put the the set lever and clutch lever in and apply pressure with teweezers to the top of the set lever it moves the clutch lever as if it's going to work when assembled but each time it doesn't the winding stem pulls straight out, i've checked the winding stem it looks ok.

Does anyone have an idea whwere i'm going wrong or away to check why the winding stem pull straight out of the movement.

I was tidying away as i was working on the kitchen table, put the movemnt back in the case i noticed the balance was moving, so the small bottom jewel needs a a new retaining clip, i think this was the original reason the watch stopped working and who ever took it apart first naffed up the keyless works.

Any pointers for things i can check with the keyless works, this seems to be the main problem now.

 

Hiya vg. You're certainly having a good crack at fixing it matey. Sounds fairly  simple, I'm only a beginner myself, but put a picky up so others can have a look and give you diagnosis. Almost definitely a watchbreaker has had a play lol. Broken shock  spring, missing dial screws and hashed keyless works.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[valleyguy]

I'll take some pics and post them, i think it will be the little nub either it's bent upwards or become chamfered by someone trying to pull the stem out with brute force without pressing the stem release on the movement, so it no longer engages into the stem properly.

Can you get the little retaing clips that retains the cap jewel, i've looked on ebay and cousins but can't seem to find anyone who sells them, are they a generic item one size fits all, where can a get them from.

Thanks for the info, i'm a newbie to watch repair, i've been watching the videos and reading what i can online, i downloaded and printed out the time zone shcool watch parts glossary as a guide, i'm learning as i go.

http://people.timezone.com/mdisher/WatchSchool/pdfs/TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

 

[JohnR725]

14 hours ago, valleyguy said:

Can you get the little retaing clips that retains the cap jewel, i've looked on ebay and cousins but can't seem to find anyone who sells them, are they a generic item one size fits all, where can a get them from.

In order to help find parts we need to know which watch were looking for parts for?

21 hours ago, valleyguy said:

Citron watch

Often times the name on the watch isn't actually who made the watch movement. It be nice to have a picture of your watch so we can see if we can figure out what it is.

[Neverenoughwatches]

15 hours ago, valleyguy said:

I'll take some pics and post them, i think it will be the little nub either it's bent upwards or become chamfered by someone trying to pull the stem out with brute force without pressing the stem release on the movement, so it no longer engages into the stem properly.

Can you get the little retaing clips that retains the cap jewel, i've looked on ebay and cousins but can't seem to find anyone who sells them, are they a generic item one size fits all, where can a get them from.

Thanks for the info, i'm a newbie to watch repair, i've been watching the videos and reading what i can online, i downloaded and printed out the time zone shcool watch parts glossary as a guide, i'm learning as i go.

http://people.timezone.com/mdisher/WatchSchool/pdfs/TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

 

Hiya vg . The chamfer is usually  at the back end of the stem, away  from the crown to help it slide back in. If there is damage facing toward the crown then someone has given it some welly to get it out so the setting lever is not holding it in position, or setting lever damage.The shock springs are different sizes and different shapes and designs often lost or broken even by pros occasionally. Like John said a picture is needed to ID the movement and then go from there. I think you've just been unlucky and it's had watchbreaker intervention before you acquired it.