Help removing the movement from an old Rotary, please.

[wolfmanjack]

Hi everyone , I told you it wouldnt be long before i started pestering you with my stoopid newbie questions , so apologies in advance and let it begin  

I was rumaging around in a box of some old watches of my fathers looking for something to take apart and try to rebuild … most of them are in various states of disassembly with who knows what missing , but i found this Rotary 2824 in a tub on its own , it has been partially disassembled but it looks like most of its there and complete, i have the rotor and most of the winding system… i think.

The stem came out ok and the two small screws which i thought secured the movement , there were no small tabs under them.

But the movement will not come out … It will quite freely turn inside the case , but it wont lift out …

There is a “movement ring” i think may be the name , but i cant get it out … I dont know if it needs to come out or if the movement should just lift out now. I have tried to persuade it but it wont budge or turn … In a couple of the pics it looks like its maybe jammed at an angle, but it isnt …. its evenly protruding from the case back.

I have tried to search for info here and on you tube … but no joy … removing the movement ring seems to be a step that just happens before the real work begins …..

Am i missing something extremely basic here ?

Sorry, i seem to have failed at the first hurdle  

Ian

 

 

[HectorLooi]

I think what you have there is a "front loader".

Could you post some photos of the front and side view so we can advise you on how to remove the crystal to get the movement out from the front?

[wolfmanjack]

 Hi there HectorLooi , Thanks for the quick reply , I hadnt thought of a "front loading option" ... why didnt i start with something simple !!!

 Ive attached some quick phone snaps of the front , and there does seem to be a groove .....

I guess it would make sense ... maybe a good job i didnt get too rough with it

cheers

Ian

 

[HectorLooi]

From photo 2, 3 and 4, I can see a gap under the bezel ring. But that is a very high dome crystal, so I'm not sure if this is the type where you remove the bezel and the crystal comes off or the type where you need a "claw tool" crystal lift to remove the crystal.

I think it's better to wait for other more experienced members to chime in.

[anilv]

Pop off the bezel by prying a knife in the gap as mentioned by Hector.

The two screws that retain the movement will give you the biggest clue as to how the movement comes out. If they are just two screws braced against the case it is more than likely the watch movement will come out the front. If the two screws hold a little plate which is trapped under a lip in the case then the movement will probably come out the back. There are other methods to retain the movement but observing the screws and what they are doing will help.

Eg if the two screws just screw out, you need to ask yourself what good are they if the movement comes out the back?

HTH

Anilv

[watchweasol]

By the look of the bezel at 3 o'clock it comes off and the movement will come out. The high dome crystal could have been fitted during its life time.    There are some good walkthroughs on the site posted by menbers. Use the search fumction on the home page.   attached a document that might be useful for you.

TECH_ETA.2824-2.pdf

[wolfmanjack]

Thank you everyone who replied.

It was indeed a " front loader ".

The bezel and crystal popped off quite easily and out it came... my first watch strip begins...

Now i can start the disassembly. watchweasol, your pdf is much appreciated. Between that, VWatchies pics and some i will take myself .... hopefully i can get it cleaned and rebuilt.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Thanks again

Ian

[watchweasol]

Good show   keep us posted.

[wolfmanjack]

 

Hi everyone

An update , and another plea for help here

I stripped the movement keeping as many of the small assys together as possible ... there may be one or two screws who pinged out into another part of the dish and got mixed up ... but i think all is now good.

I have since cleaned all the parts in a small ultrasonic cleaner using zippo fluid and an IPA wash to remove residue... so all is now clean. The barrel and spring were cleaned by removing the top of the barrel and putting it in the cleaner complete with the spring still in the barrel ... Its definitely cleaner than it was ... I will think about manually unwinding / winding the spring another day.

Reassembly has been going well so far ... thoroughly enjoying myself.

But now to my first issue ... The click spring ... When i put it back in its slot ... it seems to stick up a lot higher than the top of the groove and the crown wheel i think its called dosent sit flat ... it just seems wrong to me.

the click spring is 0.54mm tall ... which is much taller than its slot.

It must have been like that when i took it apart , i think, I havent been messing with any other watches  yet.

Any suggestions to what im doing wrong from the attached pics ... surely the crown wheel dosent sit at an angle on top of the click spring ?

I dont have a "build manual" for the older 2824 , just the 2824-2 from watchweasol ... and i didnt take any detail photos of the dissasembly as i thought the dissasembly / assembly pics from VWatchies thread would have been awesome enough ... they are great pics  ... but obviously there do seem to be a few differences on the -2 version.... oops.

Thanks in advance 

Ian

PS as you can see from the blue tray , there is another small spring with a rounded end ... I have no idea at the moment where it came from, it also just pinged out ... so if anyone has an idea .......

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by wolfmanjack

[HectorLooi]

Your 2824 looks strange. It doesn't seem to have the usual combination yoke and setting lever spring. Perhaps that thick spring you are using as the click spring is the setting lever spring. The other finer spring with the rounded end also doesn't appear to come from a 2824.

If you have a guitar lying around the house, you can make a click spring yourself quite easily. Just cut about 15mm of the thinnest string and bend it into shape and cut the ends to the correct length. 5 minute job.

[wolfmanjack]

Thanks for the suggestion Hectorlooi , I dont have a geeetar , wish i could play tho ... but the local model shop say they have some 0.35mm piano wire , marginally thicker than a 0.28mm guitar string ... but defo thinner than the 0.54mm spring thats in there now ... I shall pop in and get some in the next day or so and bend one up... i can do that

Thats definitely the spring i took out of there, but ... i guess i am now going to find out the downsides to starting with an old movement from a scrap box .... I thought all i needed to do was order a new balance complete , clean , lube and reassemble it ... first build , job done .... maybe not !!!

The other rounded spring i'm not sure about , though it definitely came out of the movement somewhere ... i guess i shall have to just carry on reassembling it sub assy by sub assy and see how much works and what dosent ... i did note on strip down that there wasnt a "stop lever " fitted as well ... tho i am assuming this just wasnt a part of the older movement build.

I have now reassembled the "keyless works" parts and they seem to be working so far ... i guess i now need to get the click and crown wheel parts back in next .... i hope my terminology isnt too far off... i sometimes i think i spend too much time researching / surfing and not enough time actually producing results !!!

Anyway , thanks again for the advice and suggestions ... and my ramble is over for tonite  

cheers

Ian

 

[LittleWatchShop]

17 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

If you have a guitar lying around the house, you can make a click spring yourself quite easily. Just cut about 15mm of the thinnest string and bend it into shape and cut the ends to the correct length. 5 minute job.

Lol...finally a use for spent strings. I have been playing since 1965...so many strings to the landfill.

[wolfmanjack]

Hi LWS , thanks for dropping by ... and i think i may have saved this ole spring from landfill 

Just as i was thinking of heading out for the 45 min drive to the modelshop today i had an idea ... if i can just "make a new spring" ... then why cant i just fix the old one ..... so in about the same time as it would have taken me to drive there ... i had sanded two fingertips almost through to blood ,oh aye , and also sanded the spring down to about 0.3 ish mm thick  ... job done ... and saved me 75p in the process .... typical Jock living in Yorkshire, what else would you expect 

Anyway , it seems to work fine .... So i crashed on with the rebuild ... and am now down to the last couple of pieces .... 

And .... my next question.... " That other spring "

Everything else seems to have gone back together fairly straightforwadly , and i am now at the last bit, around the datewheel clicker area, and this is where my old original 2824 seems to differ a bit from a modern 2824-2 according to my pics.

I think i have the little hooked actuating arm in the right place to check / advance the datewheel .... the date jumper maintaining plate and its wee wheel are straightforward enough .... but that little arm that seems to be the date jumper ... needs to be sprung, and im sure this keyhole shaped spring item is it .... BUT i cant figure out how it goes in there to work against that wee arm .... sorry for my iffy descriptions.

I have attached a couple of pics showing the pieces i have and where i roughly think the spring could go but i just cant see how it fits in .... does anyone have a suggestion , or a pic / document showing how it should be assembled ?

Apart from that my movement is all back together and just waiting for its new balance complete to be fitted and then i'll see if it runs .... although if i cant get this date jumper springy bit finished its going to be the first item in my new junk / spares box

cheers

Ian

 

 

[HectorLooi]

That's one strange 2824 you've got. If you look at the 2824 tech sheet @watchweasol attached, the date jumper doesn't look anything like that.

[wolfmanjack]

Aye, that it is,  but the tech sheet watchweasol attached is for a 2824-2 .... obviously ETA have made changes from when they released the original 2824 just over 50 years ago , then modified it to become the 2824-1 and finally modified to the current 2824-2 

I havent been able to find a tech sheet or parts diagram etc for the original 2824 anywhere on tinternet ... which probably isnt much of a surprise given my limited search abilities

Everything just seems to refer to the -2 version.

hopefully someone out there may remember this old dinosaur movement ....

cheers

Ian

Edited March 24, 2022 by wolfmanjack

[watchweasol]

Hi Wolfy,  Have a shufty at the the attached sheet it covers the 2801 base caliber to the 2806 so hope fully it has what you need as it covers several calibers.   cheers .

29_ETA2801.2-ETA2836.2 (10).pdf 1388_Eta 2801,4,6 Part1 (12).pdf 1389_Eta 2801,4,6 Part2 (2).pdf

[HectorLooi]

Good job so far. You're almost there. Don't go crazy with the dial. Just blow off any dust and dab off any smudges with Rodico.

The crystal looks ok. A good polish with some of the new type of foam backed nail buffs will have it looking like new in no time.

[wolfmanjack]

Hi guys

Sorry WW , i'm not seeing anything with a similar assembly in your docs , there is a spring which looks similar but it seems to be used in a different place ... the 70s 2824 remains a mystery to me.

Hi Hector , I'm not going to go crazy with the dial ... In fact i think the whole thing is about to go back in the box ... the original idea was to see if i could strip n build and work with the small sizes involved  .... I think its been a reasonable success ... the size dosent bother me and i think ive learned a few things from this first attempt ... the main thing ive learned is i need to take pics and make notes of the movement that i am working on and not rely on others pics of their movements and docs which may be the same , similar or something in between.

I will return to this one another time , but for now i need another movement ... i think i need to start this time with one which works and see if i can take it apart and make it work again... and maybe not quite so vintage this time. 

cheers

Ian