Jump to content

Dial refinishers: Here for you is a DIRECT comparison


Recommended Posts

Hmm, hard one to pick for me, I think I gravitate towards the first dial. Comparing with photos online the text is more accurate (see the 'c' at the end of 'Automatic') and in general seems a bit more crisp and defined.

The lume on the first dial has also been more carefully applied, lots of running over the lines on the second dial.

The numbers in the first dial however are not as sharp as those in the second but the second has quality issues in all 3 numbers displayed, especially the '9'.

The date display in the second it a bit nicer, I also tend to prefer the finish of the black on the second dial, a little bit finer than the first.

Even given that I stick with my preference of the first dial, the crisper logo and accurate text is probably the most important thing for me. I don't place a huge importance on the aged lume although it is definitely a concern if you asked for it and they did not use it, I would not be happy in that case!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Here are two identical dial layouts.  One was done by International Dial and the other was done by Kirk Rich.

I don't know anything about dial refinishing but it seems to me these have been hand made not printed? I'd say good skills on both with slightly different imperfections that show these have been reworked. I hope these folks won't get upset for being publicily compared.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, jdm said:

I don't know anything about dial refinishing but it seems to me these have been hand made not printed? I'd say good skills on both with slightly different imperfections that show these have been reworked. I hope these folks won't get upset for being publicily compared.

Rather doubt they are on this forum.  But...who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I spoke with the refinisher today...he said he would make it right.

 hr2 and hr4 markers are positioned asymetric with respect to hr3. 

The whole dial is off , you will always be 20min late. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tony13 said:

I would send both back. To many mistakes even the logo is done poorly and not sharp, the wittnauer text has the wrong font in either one of them.

But it all depends on what you agreed.

These dial refinishers are backed up for many months and the only game in town.  At least at some level, they call the shots.  It is hard to specify: "make it look like it came from the factory" so you have to just hope for the best.  I recently bought a NOS dial (like the one described in this post).  They are incredibly rare and 3X+ more expensive.  At the end of the day, you take what you can get.  Some argue not to refinish.  I get that.  But if a dial is a mess...I think refinishing is OK.  The darker dial came from my watch which (many many years ago) I had customized.  The paint began to flake off, so I put the original dial back on the watch and sent the customized one back to return to original (low risk transaction).  Nevertheless, I am unhappy.  But the refinisher has promised to make it right.  It is a no brainer in this case...it was a spectacular FUBAR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cannot add anything useful but Id like to understand why the paint I used once on a dial would not stay on the dial and would flake off, just like the paint I recently used on a hand. Any idea what sort of paint is used here? What does refinish mean? Do they go down to base metal removing the original paint completely? What is the primer and what is the paint? I noticed that some sort of silver colored paint / surface treatment? used as primer in many (most?) cases. Am I right? Are you aware of any material in this topic I could possibly read?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

These dial refinishers are backed up for many months and the only game in town.  er in this case...it was a spectacular FUBAR.

I am sorry did not mean to offend you.

I was not aware of that situation guess I am just spoiled living close to Germany and speak their language.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

I cannot add anything useful but Id like to understand why the paint I used once on a dial would not stay on the dial and would flake off, just like the paint I recently used on a hand. Any idea what sort of paint is used here? What does refinish mean? Do they go down to base metal removing the original paint completely? What is the primer and what is the paint? I noticed that some sort of silver colored paint / surface treatment? used as primer in many (most?) cases. Am I right? Are you aware of any material in this topic I could possibly read?

Pretty sure that go to base metal.  Beyond that, I do not know.

The dial that I referred to with flaking paint...it was refinished 50 years ago by a company called Southern Dial located in Dallas, TX.  They no longer exist.  No customer service department to complain to...lol.

Edited by LittleWatchShop
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/2/2022 at 12:12 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

Pretty sure that go to base metal.  Beyond that, I do not know.

 

An uniform painting is done by aerographing with relative ease, but for perfect lettering and other features a perfect dial must be printed, check "pad printer". That requires top level clichés, making them is an art in itself, even in our times. I believe that restorers do that for the most popular models, but for others they must resort to hand painting, possibly guided by some sort of stencil. When the artist is not a top one, or there is too much time pressure, the results come as your examples above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update: Have resolved the issue of lume and "automatic" with one refinisher who will fix these issues and put me in front of the queue.

Still trying to close the loop with the other dial refinisher--several phone calls but working through and "email" issue (which is quite interesting).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a post recently in the Facebook group "Old Vintage Watches" where someone got their Vacheron dial back from International Dial Company after a 7+ month wait, and man, it looked like it had been done by a blind man with a dull crayon. Just unbelievably bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

There was a post recently in the Facebook group "Old Vintage Watches" where someone got their Vacheron dial back from International Dial Company after a 7+ month wait, and man, it looked like it had been done by a blind man with a dull crayon. Just unbelievably bad.

I would say that IDC did OK except for following instructions.  I think the turn time was about seven months.  They are gonna fix it, so I will get what I get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Does it say 17 jewels on the dial or on the movement ?
    • Lots of rust on that hairspring Nev, would you even try to clean it up ?
    • How do you find the working distance from microscope lens to movement? Is it comfortable enough to get tools in?
    • Once you have the collet closer bits off, and the pulley off, there are two nuts on the spindle. These must be removed. There is a large nut in the back of the headstock with two holes, remove this with an appropriate wrench. The front large nut comes off too. The spindle now comes out- but wait- there's more! There is a spacer between the outer races of the bearings; the spindle will almost certainly come out "assembled" with both bearings and this spacer (it can actually come out front or back-ways with the large nuts off the headstock). You have to manage to press out the spindle from the rear bearing, get the spacer off, then remove the front bearing, now you can get to the key.   Imagining you get it all apart without causing any damage to the bearings, now the fun part starts. You must apply preload to the bearings, and this is a very tricky endeavor. Basically once you have the bearings back on, and are in the casting, you snug up the rear nut (one of the two) on the spindle, checking the play of the spindle with at least a 0.002mm reading indicator, until there is zero axial play, then just a little more, then snug up the second nut to lock things in place. Of course snugging up the second nut influences the preload, so you can go back and forth a few times to get it right. Too much preload and bearing life diminishes, too little, and you get poor performance, poor surface finishes, ball skidding, etc.   When I replaced the bearings in one of mine many years ago, I was surprised to find that the bearings were regular deep-groove bearings, but of a higher precision class than normal. I replaced with dimensionally identical angular contact bearings, class P4. In trying to set the preload, I just about lost my mind, so called Barden (the high precision arm of FAG bearing makers, and who made my new ones) and a nice engineer told me that the folks at Leinen were either crazy, or really good- he also said it's 100% A-OK to set up deep groove bearings with preload like this, but best is angular contact. In this bearing setup, the standard way to do it is to have a spacer between the outer races, and another between the inner races. Leinen has the former but not the latter, haha. His advice was to make an inner spacer. The trick is it has to be the exact same length as the outer spacer, within like a micron.  Then you just tighten everything up and the preload is set, because the bearings (the new ones) are ground in a way that they have proper preload in that situation. Easy. Sort of- if you have the means to make the other spacer!   Just to note- Schaublin does the preloading as Leinen did on these on their lathes using angular contact bearings. There is a procedure in the manual, where you tighten the nut until axial play is zero, then a certain number of degrees more. This works on their setup as the nut itself locks without a second nut, and they spent the time to figure it all out in a repeatable way.   I say all this not to scare you off from dismantling your headstock, just to give a heads-up what you're up against to get it back to where it was before.
×
×
  • Create New...