Ingraham Golden Arrow Alarm Clock Won't run with back on

[MikeinDC]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and have only minor experience repairing clocks.  I have a cool Ingraham Golden Arrow alarm clock that is cosmetically in excellent condition, even came with its original box.  When I first pulled it out of the box the winding mechanism felt frozen and the clock wasn't running.  I opened the back up just to check it out and touched the anchor softly and the clock started running immediately.  I left the back off and it continued to run.  I put the back on and it ran for a few days and then stopped.  I figured it just ran down and wound the clock several revolutions (yes, it now would wind).  Unfortunately, it would run.  I shook it and tapped it a few time to no result, so I opened it again, lightly touched the anchor again and it started right back up. It keeps perfect time as long as I leave the back off.  Another strange thing about the clock is that if I wind the alarm spring it will start ringing the minute I pull out the alarm silencer, regardless of the time that is set for the alarm. It doesn't look like there is anything that could be impinging the mechanism with the back on.  Any ideas for a simple repair? 

I really like the clock, but it would cost more than the clock is worth to take it for a repair.

Thanks,

Mike in DC

[KarlvonKoln]

It's really super hard to diagnose this sort of thing at a distance.  But I think the first thing I'd do is look at the inside of the back cover to see if there are any scuffs, any sign where something is rubbing.  The way the cover goes back on will tell you what was touching that scuffed location, then hopefully you'll be able to form a plan of action.
As to the alarm, I'd need to see under the dial.  With most alarm clocks, the alarm hand is fitted to a tube and a wheel geared to the setting mechanism, and sprung from below in such a way that when the hour wheel's indent reaches just the right point, an interface on the alarm wheel is sprung and trips the alarm mechanism.  It sounds like yours is in a constant state of sprung.  You will need to set all hands to 12 first (so they can be put back where the alarm will sound the right time) then take all hands off, remove dial, and try to determine what happened under there.
With more pictures we can offer more aid.  And there are folks here who work on clocks far more often than I do and may chime in soon with further advice. 

[LittleWatchShop]

Not enough data. 

-Wen you have the back on, is it oriented differently than when you have the back off?  Could be the problem is manifested by orientation and not related to the back being on or off.
-When you put the back on, do you put nuts on those diagonal posts and tighten?  Could be slight torque on plate impacting the balance wheel.
-What an "anchor?"

It needs a good cleaning, so before looking for gremlins, it should be cleaned and oiled.

[HectorLooi]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

-What an "anchor?"

That would be the pallet. They used to be called "English anchor".

I don't think there is a simple solution. It sounds like the clock would need a complete disassembly, cleaning and oiling.

You can test if it's a problem with lubrication by using a small artist brush, dipped in lighter fluid, and dab around the pivots to clean and loosen any dried up oils. Watch the balance wheel as you do this. If there is a significant improvement in amplitude, that would be an indication that the clock would need a thorough cleaning.

If not, re-oil the pivots and check for worn out holes and pivots. If the hole looks oval and not perfectly round or if you detect a lot of sideshake when you hold the wheel and move it about, then you have a worn out hole that needs rebushing.

Anyway, our resident clock deity, OldHippy will advise you soon.

[MikeinDC]

@KarlvonKoln - Thanks for the response.  There is no obvious scuffing on the inside of the case, so I don't think that is what is causing the issue.  Regarding the alarm.  I now see the catch that controls the alarm.  Appears that it is just barely catching the alarm hammer and there is just enough play in the hammer that it is escaping the catch with even a slight movement.  So, either the catch is not extending far enough or the hammer has too much play and is just slipping out.  I've attached a picture of the catch.  Guess I'll take it apart and see.  

@LittleWatchShop - Thanks for your input.  Same orientation on or off.  I now think that it has nothing to do with the back being on or off.  I let it run down and stop with the back off and then wound it up again.  It still wouldn't start running again until I tapped the "anchor", or pallet.  (I looked up a diagram of clock parts so I'd hopefully be using the right names, guess I chose poorly).  I think you are right that it needs a good cleaning and lube.  Possible it just has enough gunk in the works to cause it to stick.

@HectorLooi - Thank you.  I think you are all on the right path.  Clean and lube first to eliminate the simplest issue.  Not sure if clock lube is as bad as record player lube, but I've seen the effects of 50 year of grease before.  Must not be horrible since once I start it up it will run for days and seems to be accurate.

Appreciate the quick input all around.  Glad I found this forum.  

[watchweasol]

Hi Mike you have had some good advice from the members. As Hector explained first get the dirt and congealed oil out of the movement. If you are not confident to take it to bits to do the cleaning just put the whole thing in some petrol and with a small brush clean it that way. Protect the balance spring and balance wheel and blow dry with compressed air (In a can) then dry lude ricate it. Windles oil is the bast for clocks and is available on the net.  The above is a crude method but it works. As you suspect the cost of repair would greatly outweigh the price of the clock,  wish you well with the job

[MikeinDC]

@watchweasel - Thanks for the suggestion.  I'd have not thought to immerse the movement in gas.  Sounds much easier than taking it apart to reach all those small spots.  Will give that a try.

Best, Mike

[MikeinDC]

Running problem solved. As I mentioned, I have the original box for this clock.  I never bothered to read the instructions until just now.  Second line of text says, "Start clock running with a slight rotary shake."  I just stopped the clock and did just that and it started up.  I tried shaking and tapping on it before, but I guess I never got the rotation right.  I've never come across a clock that didn't just start when wound before.  If I didn't have the original box, I'd probably never have figured this out. Was this common? 

Wonder how many "broken" Golden Arrows have been tossed in the trash or sold on eBay as needing repair because of this.

Now I just have to solve the alarm issue.  

 

[watchweasol]

They were mass produced and dont have the fine tollerences of quality Clocks , so some times need a helping hand.

[clockboy]

On 2/5/2022 at 11:24 PM, MikeinDC said:

Hi, I'm new to the forum and have only minor experience repairing clocks.  I have a cool Ingraham Golden Arrow alarm clock that is cosmetically in excellent condition, even came with its original box.  When I first pulled it out of the box the winding mechanism felt frozen and the clock wasn't running.  I opened the back up just to check it out and touched the anchor softly and the clock started running immediately.  I left the back off and it continued to run.  I put the back on and it ran for a few days and then stopped.  I figured it just ran down and wound the clock several revolutions (yes, it now would wind).  Unfortunately, it would run.  I shook it and tapped it a few time to no result, so I opened it again, lightly touched the anchor again and it started right back up. It keeps perfect time as long as I leave the back off.  Another strange thing about the clock is that if I wind the alarm spring it will start ringing the minute I pull out the alarm silencer, regardless of the time that is set for the alarm. It doesn't look like there is anything that could be impinging the mechanism with the back on.  Any ideas for a simple repair? 

I really like the clock, but it would cost more than the clock is worth to take it for a repair.

Thanks,

Mike in DC

I would say looking at the pics it needs stripping down cleaning re assembling and lubrication. 

[oldhippy]

What a poor designed movement. Looks like you need to remove the alarm bell? To remove the complete balance. I’ve had a good look at this photo and around the winding stem there is a considerable amount of old oil and dirt, the same goes for the hand setting stem. You won’t be able to look at the alarm feature until you get to see what is under the dial, but someone has already told you how it works With this type of movement a 30 hour alarm the balance staff has conical pivots and they do wear down to a dull point which causes poor action. Imagine a blunt pencil that is how they wear, now imagine a sharp pencil that is how they should be, both pivots fit into cups these can also wear on the inside. The balance staff is sharpened in the lathe using a small Arkansas stone, the cups are smoothed using countersinks. Wash the whole movement less complete balance in petrol, these days many use an old hair dryer to dry the movement, oil using Windels clock oil on all pivots including a drop in the cup for the staff and a tiny amount on every other tooth on the escape wheel this will distribute oil to the pallet pins. If any of the pivot holes are worn out I consider not repairing it. Regarding the instructions on the box I take that with a pinch of salt because when you are winding the clock up you yourself are creating the action for the clock to start working. When you unpin the hairspring make sure you make a mark using a pen so you know where the hairspring was pinned as this will help you not only to have the clock in beat but it’s for the time keeping.