Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Hi Everyone!

Happy holidays! I'm in a bit of a pickle and was wondering if someone can help please. You see, I was starting work on a Cardinal watch with a Poljot 2415 Orbita movement and when I got to the part of removing the dial, I noticed one foot was already loose from the mainplate whilst the other was still being held by a screw with a missing head. That's when I noticed it was on the case cushion so it looked like the screw broke in half. I haven't even touched it so I suspect the previous guy may have omitted one of the screws and most likely snapped off the other one without realising.

The problem now is I can't remove the dial as its's till being held securely albeit on one foot by a broken screw. Short of just snapping the foot off when lifting the dial, does anyone have a nifty trick or good advice on how to remove the screw to completely free up the watch dial? I could probably get a very fine drill bit and drill it out? 

Here's some pictures so everyone will know what I mean.

Dial Screw Location

1980309979_InkedIMG_5316-Copy_LI.jpg.f666c9cc62b3bda59e731e9db6039034.jpg

Missing Screw Head

820737110_InkedIMG_5310-Copy_LI.jpg.d981e8cc76bc4878431a46be7fc14e96.jpg

The Little Rascal

1336989246_IMG_5308-Copy.JPG.5a32c86ba541181d11bd800388551b91.JPG     1220675152_IMG_5307-Copy.JPG.b8dda4a3cba107c06e14166478e9389b.JPG

Maybe I can just gouge the side of the movement and hopefully dig out the remaining screw, like a rough job surgery.

Thank you in advance and you all keep healthy and safe.

Regards,

Jesse

Posted

Hi   What I would do is to dismantle the watch leaving the front plate and dial to facilitate easier access and minimise any slip ups, Then with a sharp needle see if you can gain a purchase on the remaining screw and work it out  failing that drilling may be the only option if you have no LHthread screw removers.  broken screws are always a PIA but some times patience pays off.      good luck

  • Thanks 1
Posted

You can try taking the largest drill bit which gets in the hole , and on the non cutting end grind two faces (if possible leaving their top flat) which can bite into the broken screw when rotated counter-clockwise. That is, shaped the other way than a regular drill bit. The idea is that either by hand or with a electric screwdriver, they grab and undo the screw without causing any damage to the female threading.

  • Thanks 1
Posted

Remove these 3 bridge, barrel bridge,  train gear...., cock to gain access to the bottom of the foot , push on the the bottom with a thick needle , you may need to tap to punch the foot out. 

  • Like 2
Posted
On 12/19/2021 at 10:56 PM, jdm said:

You can try taking the largest drill bit which gets in the hole , and on the non cutting end grind two faces (if possible leaving their top flat) which can bite into the broken screw when rotated counter-clockwise. That is, shaped the other way than a regular drill bit. The idea is that either by hand or with a electric screwdriver, they grab and undo the screw without causing any damage to the female threading.

Thanks for the tip. I tried this with a needle that's thick enough and sanded angles on opposite sides so it's like a chisel or small scredriver but it's just stuck there the screw.

 

On 12/19/2021 at 10:52 PM, watchweasol said:

Hi   What I would do is to dismantle the watch leaving the front plate and dial to facilitate easier access and minimise any slip ups, Then with a sharp needle see if you can gain a purchase on the remaining screw and work it out  failing that drilling may be the only option if you have no LHthread screw removers.  broken screws are always a PIA but some times patience pays off.      good luck

Thanks. I'll give this a go and hopefully will turn. If not, I'll remove the bridge that's blocking the foot and tap it out.

 

On 12/19/2021 at 11:27 PM, Nucejoe said:

Remove these 3 bridge, barrel bridge,  train gear...., cock to gain access to the bottom of the foot , push on the the bottom with a thick needle , you may need to tap to punch the foot out. 

Thanks heaps. This might help and definitely will try. 

Thanks again everyone for your tips. 

Jesse

Posted
19 hours ago, HouseofGeorge said:

I tried this with a needle that's thick enough and sanded angles on opposite sides so it's like a chisel or small scredriver but it's just stuck there the screw.

Were you able to exercise both pressure and rotation at the same time? That is key, one would need to grab the tool with a pin vise or electrical screwdriver.

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, jdm said:

Were you able to exercise both pressure and rotation at the same time? That is key, one would need to grab the tolls with a ping vise or electrical screwdriver.

 

I would believe so yes. Held the pin with a pin vise so I have good grip but it wouldn't budge. I can perhaps attach it to a Dremel or similar tool and make another attempt. It is a true test of patience and hand/eye coordination.

So far, Broken Screw 2, myself 0.

Posted

I did something like this awhile back. I took an old screwdriver that was the same diameter as the screw head. Then I cut off the tip of the screwdriver and cut off a small piece until the cross sectional profile is like a 'D'. Then I wedge the tip into the hole and engage the remaining half of the screw head. 

One more thing, dripping some WD40 into the screw hole while you make this tool helps.

  • 3 months later...
Posted

Just to keep everyone up to date, I eventually had to get access from the movement side by removing the train bridge and wheels then hammer the dial feet out until it freed itself. 

You can see from the first two pictures the groove the screw has created while I hammered it out.

dial1.thumb.jpg.726326cbf3486080ef6448e04cb09d8f.jpg

 

dial2.thumb.jpg.f3d0b3f79abb8ee4a5eb2c97214f5c64.jpg

The next picture shows the other foot intact albeit a screw imprint for comparison.

dial3.thumb.jpg.0bfd6dbde98a86456f853a3454ea5fa6.jpg

So onwards to servicing the watch. 🙂

 

 

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • it would be nice to have the exact model of the watch the or a picture so we can see exactly what you're talking about. this is because the definition of Swiss watch could be a variety of things and it be helpful if we could see exactly the watch your dealing with then in professional watch repair at least some professionals they do pre-cleaned watches. In other words the hands and dial come off and the entire movement assembled goes through a cleaning machine sometimes I think a shorter bath perhaps so everything is nice and clean for disassembly makes it easier to look for problems. Then other professionals don't like pre-cleaning because it basically obliterates the scene of the crime. Especially when dealing with vintage watches where you're looking for metal filings and problems that may visually go away with cleaning. Then usually super sticky lubrication isn't really a problem for disassembly and typically shouldn't be a problem on a pallet fork bridge because there shouldn't be any lubrication on the bridge at all as you typically do not oil the pallet fork pivots.  
    • A few things you should find out before you can mske a decision of what to do. As Richard said, what is the crown and all of the crown components made of . Then also the stem .  The crown looks to have a steel washer that retains a gasket. So be careful with what chemicals you use to dissolve any stem adhesives or the use of heat. You might swell or melt the gasket unless you are prepared to change that also . The steel washer maybe reactive to alum. Something I've just used to dissolve a broken screw from a plate. First drilled out the centre of the screw with a 0.5mm carbide . Dipped only the section that held the broken screw in Rustins rust remover. This is 40 % phosphoric acid. 3 days and the screw remains were completely dissolved, no trace of steel in the brass threads. A black puddle left in the solution.
    • I suppose this will add to the confusion I have a roller jewel assortment. It lists out American pocket watches for Elgin 18 size and even 16 size it's a 50. But not all the various companies used 50-50 does seem to be common one company had a 51 and the smallest is 43. American parts are always interesting? Francis Elgin for mainsprings will tell you the thickness of the spring other companies will not even though the spring for the same number could come in a variety of thicknesses. But if we actually had the model number of your watch we would find it probably makes a reference that the roller jewel came in different dimensions. So overlook the parts book we find that? So it appears to be 18 and 16 size would be the same sort of the arson different catalog numbers and as I said we don't have your Mongol know which Log number were supposed to be using. Variety of materials garnered her sapphire single or double but zero mention about diameters. Then in a section of rollers in this case rollers with jewels we do get this down in the notes section Roller specifications but of course zero reference to the jewel size. I was really hoping the roller jewel assortment would give us sizes it doesn't really. But it does show a picture of how one particular roller jewel gauge is used  
    • Seems to still do it through my mobile data, I use an android phone almost exclusively, but I'll double check it. Thanks mark Strange, I'll try my laptop that utilities edge. I've been on site half hour since I got home, it hasn't done it yet. Thanks John
    • At work, I'm on MS Edge, not through chose, on my phone, chrome, no issues with either. 
×
×
  • Create New...