Lubrication spread in keyless work

[ifibrin]

Despite applying as little mobius hp1300  as I could onto the lubrication points of the keyless work in the eta 7001, I noticed that upon disassembly, the hp1300 had spread quite a distance from the points I had initially applied.

It looks similar to the picture I saw on a tutorial for disassembly and reassembly of a 2824; is this level of oil spreading in the keyless work to be expected? Would I be better off using Molykote DX in the keyless work? The technical document for the ETA 7001 recommends hp1300 though...

[oldhippy]

For the keyless work you can use Molykote DX that will work fine.

[JohnR725]

On 6/14/2021 at 8:34 PM, ifibrin said:

Despite applying as little mobius hp1300  as I could onto the lubrication points of the keyless work in the eta 7001, I noticed that upon disassembly, the hp1300 had spread quite a distance from the points I had initially applied.

one of the problems with technical information is it can either be out of date or it just doesn't give the complete picture. for instance  I snipped out an image from a different eta  technical communication  notice I highlighted something? The problem with using HP 1300 on metal surfaces is that it should be surface treated.

[mikepilk]

I use DX on the keyless work, with D5 on the stem and pivots. 

I like using DX because it stays where you put it. Also because it is opaque, it's easier to see where, and how much, you have used.

[ifibrin]

On 6/17/2021 at 7:04 PM, JohnR725 said:

one of the problems with technical information is it can either be out of date or it just doesn't give the complete picture. for instance  I snipped out an image from a different eta  technical communication  notice I highlighted something? The problem with using HP 1300 on metal surfaces is that it should be surface treated.

It does appear surface treatment is almost critical if you want to use hp1300 or d5 in the keyless work or other steel on steel parts. The hp1300 just beads up on the steel components. If you use more then it spreads everywhere!

Edited June 23, 2021 by ifibrin

[ifibrin]

On 6/17/2021 at 7:04 PM, JohnR725 said:

 

Actually, how do you use fixodrop on the keyless works? Just using molykote dx would be easier, but I’m curious

[oldhippy]

You don't use fixodrop on keyless work it is used on such things as pallets to stop the oil from spreading. As I have already said Molykote DX is fine that is all you need. 

[JohnR725]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

You don't use fixodrop on keyless work it is used on such things as pallets to stop the oil from spreading

it depends upon who you are and how much money you have? Normally your answer would be correct but if you look at the modern ETA tech sheets they surface treat just about everything. then there is Omega I snipped out something of one of their working instructions notice the before which we would do if we even used surface treatment then after. This is what you do when you have endlessly deep pockets and just have a heck of a lot of money.

So basically with the Omega procedure here are the things that you're not supposed to surface treat otherwise everything else is to be surface treated. then they ask he described two separate processes to do this. Both procedures start off the same when you completed cleaning you remove the limited components below and set them aside. Then one procedure would be to remove the final jar from your cleaning machine and replace it with the surface treatment jar. Or you could have an entire machine just with one jar and the surface treatment. It might seem expensive to have an entire cleaning machine but if you figure out how much this stuff would cost then really having another  machine really just isn't going to figure into this at all.

Then yes there procedures to do this now every single time the service a watch. Previously they didn't but that's because previously they didn't have these really nice expensive claim machines that do such a really nice job. Otherwise like we know when you look at the ETA  tech sheet the parts for all pre-surface treated anyway.

1. Balance (and all the components of the balance)

2. Shock-absorbers (in-settings only, the cap-jewel should be epilame coated)

3. Pallet fork bridge 4. Slipping mainspring

5. Inversion wheels (for the automatic calibres)

6. Calibre 3303/3313 and family: hour-counting wheel 35030 and chronograph wheel 35010

2 hours ago, ifibrin said:

Actually, how do you use fixodrop on the keyless works? Just using molykote dx would be easier, but I’m curious

always one of the mysteries of the watch companies is why they do anything? like why use oil with surface treatment when you could use grease and they been doing this for a very long time. They must have some reason why they're doing it may be they have stock in the company that makes surface treatment?

 

[Plato]

The oil will stay in place with the parts fitted - capillary action. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Plato
Missed a word out

[oldhippy]

I don't expect millionaires are on here asking questions. Many are just hobbyist or just starting out into the field of horology so why complicate matters.    

[jdm]

40 minutes ago, Plato said:

The oil will stay in place with the parts fitted - capillary action. 

Keyless parts like detents, sliding levers etc can't have capillary action - they are not vases like e.g. an hole jewels is.

That being said I never noted a problem using HP1300 all around. I may look for an alternative, as long is not a quickly aging natural oil and does not require surface treatment.

[Plato]

Any narrow spaces between solid objects, from Wikipedia:

Capillary action (sometimes capillarity, capillary motion, capillary effect, or wicking) is the process of a liquid flowing in narrow spaces without the assistance of, or even in opposition to, external forces like gravity. The effect can be seen in the drawing up of liquids between the hairs of a paint-brush, in a thin tube, in porous materials such as paper and plaster, in some non-porous materials such as sand and liquefied carbon fiber, or in a biological cell. It occurs because of intermolecular forces between the liquid and surrounding solid surfaces. If the diameter of the tube is sufficiently small, then the combination of surface tension (which is caused by cohesion within the liquid) and adhesive forces between the liquid and container wall act to propel the liquid.[1]