Removing Sicura Screw Back

[bobm12]

Excellent results John, and no less expected from the super glue method! Keep us posted how you get on!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

PS. Right on the spot Joe good eye for the movement ID!

[clockwatcher]

Update.

 

After a little Googling I've discovered that the movement, contrary to what is stamped on it, is probably a Baumgartner 158 with pin-lever escapement.

 

Edit.

 

Doh! Joe, you beat me to it! Yes, you're spot-on, and now that I've had a look under the balance wheel, the confirmation is there - BFG 158. The other words and numbers are also on the back plate but I omitted looking in the usual place before uploading my previous post. :rolleyes:

 

That's a generous offer regarding spares, which I appreciate very much. It appears to be in good order but, given that the case is pretty disgraceful I wonder whether it'd be worth the effort. I guess, if nothing else, I should service it for old times sake but finding a bezel may prove tricky.

 

Still and all, it was fun getting the back off!

[noirrac1j]

Hey John,

Well that is good news about the movement because I can tell you that despite it being a pin-lever, the BFG 158 is a robust little machine--as you already know because yours is a runner after all these years! I would suggest you go ahead and service it; give the crystal some polywatch treatment to rub out the scratches and you'll discover these watches have a endearing personality...sentimentality aside, you could also sell it for a  profit (this brand happens to be popular), but I don't think you would do that because of the history you have with it. Give it a shot and service it. I know this movement very well so if you need some tips just let me know. And if during the course of the service, something happens to get lost, send me a PM and I'll help you out.

 

J

[clockwatcher]

Thanks J for the kind words and offer of help getting the old gal serviced. I'm pleased that you have a good opinion of the 158 as I'd started to form the opinion that pin-levers were the poor cousins of the escapement world.

In an earlier post of mine I mentioned a movement from a job lot that came out of the package ticking. That was a BFG too and it impressed me by its willingness to run. It had been wound within an inch of its life and to begin with would run for a while, then stop. I twirled it each time and after a few stops and starts it loosened up and ran for about 36 hours.

Bearing in mind that my sole experience of servicing watches has, so far, been in the diassembling side of things, and I'm not yet equipped with a dedicated work bench where I can leave stuff, the proposed service of this and numerous other watches will happen at some indeterminate time in the future. Still, you're young! You'll probably be running the hospital by then!

;-)

[clockwatcher]

Geo, does Cousins stock the watchmaker's club hammer and hexagonal persuader or should I go direct to Bergeon?

[Geo]

Geo, does Cousins stock the watchmaker's club hammer and hexagonal persuader or should I go direct to Bergeon?

Seeing that is watchmaking I would recommend the Bregeon Basher! :)

[clockwatcher]

Coincidentally, as pin-lever movements have made an appearance in this thread, I've just received through the post a watch that I bought for my great-nephew, simply on the basis that his name and the watch's are the same.

Those of you in the UK and Europe will be aware of the connotations of the name Roma. That was no deterrent to my nephew against naming his little lad Roma.

The Roma that arrived at my door is a Roma Executive with an EB 8800 movement and sweep seconds, (which apparently makes it an 8801) in a well-worn state. It's pretty grubby inside but, all credit to the movement, it runs - just! The beat sounds a bit lopsided and the amplitude is miniscule, less than 90°, but it runs.

The good thing is that young Roma is not yet old enough to responsibly wear a mechanical wristwatch, so I've got two or three years to fix this one up!

[clockwatcher]

Geo, have you ANY idea what Bergeon want for the Basher set??? I'm off to Toolstation!

[clockwatcher]

Here's my Roma Executive. I think the back must have been off a few times as you only need to blow hard and it comes off! When all's said and done though, it's not a bad looking watch so with a good clean and oil it should soldier on for a week or two.

 

[ro63rto]

This is my EB8800 movement but its in a 45+ year old Jaguar desk clock. Took it out of its leather case for the first time in 30 years, gave it a wind and is working perfectly.

[noirrac1j]

Thats a nice clock Ro63erto, and I remember you posted before with pics of the dial--very nice. John that's a nice little machine there! I call most mechanical things "machines" although I know it is really an instrument (device that measures), and not a machine (device that performs work). The Ebauche Bettlach 8800 is another of those pin-levers that seems to have great durability, as can be verified by the numerous examples still working and getting wrist time. I have some in my collection with 17 jewel and 1 jewel.

 

The version you have seems to be a little older than some I've seen because it does not have the KIF shock system usually employed. This is the main area of weakness, so hopefully little Roma will be explained to guard against dropping or bumping his vintage timepiece! The other place I've seen trouble is the pin lever itself, which can sometimes become bent (one of the pins) and throw off the beat error. I place a tiny little drop of Moebius 941 on each pin to help smoothen the engagement of the escape teeth with the pins. Try not to put too much or the lop-sidedness will result in a "snow storm" on the timegrapher. By the way, I have many spare parts for this movement as well, and my offer applies here too. I like to see pin-levers getting some attention.

 

Joe

[bobm12]

Hi Joe,

 

I'm happy with using machine in the watch contest, my Rolex is a machine (device that performs work), i.e. helps pick up women easily! As for the measurements, I do it myself!  :)

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[clockwatcher]

Joe, thanks for the advice about the pins and the lack of shock device. I shan't be letting young Roma loose with anything until I'm satisfied that he's capable of caring for it but perhaps I can find a Roma movement with a shock device. Maybe, when I become more proficient as a watch repairer, I can create a quartz Franken! :devil: 

I'll let you know whether I need anything for the service; once again, thanks for the kind offer. I have noticed intermittent engagement of the escape so maybe the lever or pins need attention.

 

Maybe we should ask Mark to put up a Pin-Lever section on the forum to try and promote these little workhorses? :)

[noirrac1j]

John that is a great idea about the pin levers! Perhaps Mark will post a fantastic video in his inimitable style on a pin-lever overhaul! Mark are you reading this?!? 

 

Joe

[clockwatcher]

 

The version you have seems to be a little older than some I've seen because it does not have the KIF shock system usually employed. This is the main area of weakness, so hopefully little Roma will be explained to guard against dropping or bumping his vintage timepiece!

 

Joe

Hey Joe!

I've just posted on another thread about a recent purchase - three NOS EB 8800 movements from Italy. Happily, all three are shock protected so I may just slot a new movement into young Roma's watch.

From a source in Portugal I found a NOS diver's watch case, designed to take the 8800 movement but, in this case, having a date magnifier in the crystal. As it happens, I have a scrap 8800 with the date mechanism and ring so I wonder whether I can marry the date parts to my new basic 8800 movement to create a movement for the diver? Your thoughts would be appreciated. Also, I'll need a dial for the diver but I can't seem to find anything suitable. The diameter of the case aperture is 29.5 mm and the centre of the date magnifier is 5.5 mm from the outer edge in case you have, or see, anything that might fit. I can't afford to be fussy here so I don't mind about the style or colour particularly, just generic diver!

Another new acquisition that may interest, or be familiar to you, is a tidy Timex Dynabeat 255. I'd never heard of electric watches until I came across something about Hamiltons and I was prompted to have a look on the auctions sites. Next thing you know I've shelled out 16 bucks and postage and received the Timex. It was described as being a goer so I ordered a new battery and fitted it and away she went. The sound it makes is impressive - like an alarm clock on speed! It was a bit laborious setting the time and date but the timekeeping is impressive too. I've pulled the battery for now as I've no idea whether it's ever been serviced and I don't want to wreck it. Good job there's a Timex forum out there!

Regards

John

[noirrac1j]

Hey Clockwatcher good to hear from you,

The EB 8800 have completely interchangeable parts with the possible exception of the balance. If you change the balance you'll have to change the pallet as well because some of the balances have a jeweled roller as opposed to a finger and will not run correctly without the matching pallet. I say “possible” because this is not a consistent difference in these movements. Usually if the movement has 17 jewels or more then the balance has the jeweled roller.

 

 Another thing inconsistent is the manner in which the movement is secured to the case. Sometimes different case rings are used in two identical watches! The problem is that they don't all work interchangeably. Sometimes they don't use rings at all and secure with case screws instead--This is especially true for Sicura watches—which sometimes use Bettlach Ebauches( EB) and sometimes use their own.

 

Here is a dial designed for EB 8800 that came from a Sears watch. Can you tell me the diameter of the original dial, the thickness and also--most importantly--a picture of the back of the dial (if it has feet), or a picture of the front if attached with dial screws. Either type will have to overlay perfectly onto your movement.

[noirrac1j]

[clockwatcher]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for getting back to me. Hope you had a good experience in Baltimore.

I can't tell you any more about the dial 'cos there isn't one to describe. The case and movement are a match but, being NOS, it's up to me to try and find a dial. The case inside diameter is, as stated, 29.5 mm max and the centre of the date window in the crystal is at 5.5 mm but that's all I can give you. As far as I can see, the dial feet will be, as you indicate, at 12 and 6 and secured with screws with a flat edge on one side.

I realise that this is a tricky ask but I was hoping you might know of a source of new or used dials.

[noirrac1j]

Yes Baltimore is a great city--but one of contradictions as with many American Cities. The conference was great, but I'm always glad to be back home in good ole' NYC with all its warts!

 

Regarding the watch, now I understand. You have a new movement and case and want to build a watch to match the movement! OK, well maybe send me a picture of the movement, the case, and then the movement in the case. I've not seen many dials for EB 8800, in fact I have never seen one for sale. But that doesn't mean they're not out there. In my own stack of watches I have many EB 8800 movements (one-jewel) with dials but they are almost all from Sears watches. I might have one from some other maker. but definitely none by Sicura. I'll have to measure the dials I have to see if they will fit you measurements, but it sounds like the case diameter would indeed match up with a dial about 28.5 mm in diameter as in the picture. If you'd like me to mail you a dial to try out let me know. I will be in France very soon and so the shipping would be cheap to do in Europe....No charge.

 

JC

[clockwatcher]

Thanks again Joe!

When I saw the case I initially thought it might make a new home for the BFG from the Sicura but they're different and the Sicura case, albeit lacking the bezel, is nicer. I'll fix that one up one day.

What attracted me to the EB movements was that they were three for about $12 each including postage. That meant I could have one to service, one to use as a rebuild guide and still have an untouched one if things went tits up! Given the long list of watches that are awaiting my attention I thought that a kind of kit watch might be fun. The movements are all 17 jewels shock protected so pretty good quality for pin levers I suppose. Do you want one? My treat!

The case is one of a number that have been offered by a Portuguese seller and it's not too blingy - I don't do bling! I assumed (amateur mistake) that there must be supplies of dials as well. Doh! Never mind, no rush! Your offer of a trial dial is typically generous but I'll pass on it. I'm scouring ebay and something will turn up.

Where are you travelling to in France? If I walk 200 yards from my front door I can see the French coast. Maybe we can wave to each other! :-)

[noirrac1j]

Hey John, That offer is super-generous and I'd love a 17 Jewel EB 8800, but I would not want to take one of you spare movements that might come in handy later on. I don't do "bling" too much myself, even though I am told I can pull it off when necessary--must be the latin blood or something! In any case, I'll be in Paris on Monday but heading straight away from there to Sainte Marie du Mont and some other points along the coast of Normandy just across the channel from England. I'll keep a a look out for a dial to fit your EB 8800. 

 

Regards,

JC

[oldhippy]

Good God what a mess. At the end of you effort the movement is of poor quilty.

 

This is the type of cass opener you should have used. With the different attachments it will open most cases.

[clockwatcher]

That would have made a difference. Unfortunately I only had the three-jaw opener.

[oldhippy]

That would have made a difference. Unfortunately I only had the three-jaw opener.

At my time as a watch maker I had all sorts of watch openers, Omega, Tissot and Rolex this one was the proper opener with all the attachments it came from Rolex it was in a big green box it cost a packet. The one in the picture was a great universal opener it more or less done away with the others. In my search I came across many with the three jaw single handle, I'm wondering if the one I had has been discontented. 

[noirrac1j]

Good God what a mess. At the end of you effort the movement is of poor quilty.

 

This is the type of cass opener you should have used. With the different attachments it will open most cases.

Hello Old Hippy! Welcome to the forum. It IS a mess, but have you ever tried opening one of these casebacks if its never been opened? Even with four prongs, the thing is not going to budge---you'll wind up with a scratched caseback and it will still be sealed tight. The movement--while not the usual swiss-lever type--s of good quality and very robust mechanically. I have many pin-lever watches and also have about 5 or 6  vintage Omega chronometer-grade movements in addition to a bunch of other Bulova, Elgin, Jules Jurgensen (which is very good, by the way!), Seiko, Tissot and Waltham. This runs as good as any of them.