Balance wheel wobble

[ifibrin]

5 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Judging by how happy the balance runs in your vid, I don't think any part is broken, or jewels have moved.

Its the balance wheel thats out of true. Mark on the wheel where studs is to be for in beat adjust.   remove the hairspring, reinstal the balance only on mainplate, turn the wheel to see where needs to be lowered or raised, ink mark it? take the balance out and hold it by hand and try leveling by tweezers, it may take several tries. OR practice removal/ instaltion of balance complete with this before attempting to replace it with new.

 

 

I don’t have the tool for removing the hairspring stud just yet; from other posts it appears to be fitted quite tight? I’ll wait to do this until I am at level 3 of marks course and have the correct tools. I’m not even sure if I can install a new balance to the balance cock since the stud looks it might be fit quite tightly

[watchweasol]

Hi  given the circumstances you are in, If you are happy to use it a a practice piece so be it. If as you say you can see the pivots wobble within the jewel then either the jewel is worn or the pivot, Or at some time in the past the wrong staff has been fitted. The thing is it works and will suffice to being a training movement , so follow that path. John725 has kindly supplied you with the relavant date sheets for you assistance. I wish you all the best with the training good luck  cheers.

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, ifibrin said:

I looked at the balance wheel through the endstones on both sides, and for each vibration, I can clearly see the balance pivots shake slightly from side to side at 15x magnification. The balance pivots looked fine otherwise. It does look that the balance wheel is just out of round, but the movement still works for my purposes.

  In case of excessive side shake, pivot would easily jump out of jewel hole if you gently lift one side of balance wheel.  Excess side shake is unlikely to be causing this much wobble. 

Observe and compare the amplitude in horizental and vertical positions, some drop in amplitude is normal, damaged jewel hole will noticably reduce the amplitude in vertical position. 

 

 

[JohnR725]

 

4 hours ago, ifibrin said:

I looked at the balance wheel through the endstones on both sides, and for each vibration, I can clearly see the balance pivots shake slightly from side to side at 15x magnification. The balance pivots looked fine otherwise. It does look that the balance wheel is just out of round, but the movement still works for my purposes.

one of the problems with somebody new to watch repair and a microscope is? It would be nice if you had other watches to look at is it really excessive side shake? Microscope makes everything look big but is it really excessive? Just think how bad it would look under an electron microscope? But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad.

 

4 hours ago, ifibrin said:

I don’t have the tool for removing the hairspring stud just yet; from other posts it appears to be fitted quite tight? I

looking for your missing a studs screw has been quite interesting? Normally to remove the stud from the bridge is easy I even have a picture which has a problem? Looking at the tech sheet your studs screw appears to be missing? It's nowhere to be found on that particular tech sheet? But don't worry it's found on the other tech sheet that we came from cousins? Unfortunately reveals up problem the studs screw is only found on some stud holders?

the first link shows our problem no stud screw? . Then brings up a problem this watch has been in production since 1971 indication it may still be in production. So why is this a problem? Then there's a nice video unfortunately it's hard to tell how much the balance wheel is wobbling.

A problem with watches that have been in production for a long time tend to have variations. We of the original version before eta took over. then there version but I was hoping to find a manufacturing information sheet from them normally it would list the various variations. But it doesn't it only shows one version. If we look at the various pictures we will see different types of balance jewel protection systems this is an indication of different qualities of this movement.

https://calibercorner.com/eta-caliber-7001/

the next link does show no studs screw and brings up the other problem? Apparently some of the watch companies had variations or a reference that this is the base caliber. This is because of you scroll down far enough there's a studs screw with additional screw? The additional screw more than likely is a micro adjustment for the beat.

https://wornandwound.com/caliber-spec-peseuxeta-7001/

this next link is interesting because it has lots of pictures of your movement. But also look at the quality of this particular movement versus the one you have confirming that the watch came in various quality grades.

http://horology-student.org/movements/modern-eta-and-clones/eta-peseux-7001/

for now I think I wouldn't worry about taking the stud off the bridge. You can disassemble the watch practice reassembling cleaning lubrication etc. Each time if you're cleaning you can remove the balance jewels make sure you put the spring back that was holding them in place. The balance wheel can go back on the main plate with its screw ill be safe there.

That as far as the balance wheel are getting damaged in the plastic container extremely doubtful. In order to bend the balance wheel you'd have to push on it far enough that the balance protection for the pivots allow the bottom of the balance wheel or the top to come in contact with the main plate which would protect the pivots then with additional hard pressure you would bend the rim of the balance wheel. I suspect you could basically in its shipping container drop across a tabletop or even drop it on the floor that should survive without bending the balance wheel. Only somebody handling the movement inappropriately should normally cause it to get bent. But I think for now I wouldn't worry about that.

It would also be nice if you had a timing machine? This is where when you're starting out it's nice to time your incoming watch in a couple of different positions verify that it's running. Then when you disassemble and later reassemble it should look like it did before or conceivably better. This is why it's always good to start with a new movement as opposed to trying to repair or something when you're trying to learn and trying to repair at the same time it usually doesn't end up well and it's easy to blame the nonrunning watch on that was the condition when you found it.

 

[ifibrin]

6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

one of the problems with somebody new to watch repair and a microscope is? It would be nice if you had other watches to look at is it really excessive side shake? Microscope makes everything look big but is it really excessive? Just think how bad it would look under an electron microscope? But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad.

 

looking for your missing a studs screw has been quite interesting? Normally to remove the stud from the bridge is easy I even have a picture which has a problem? Looking at the tech sheet your studs screw appears to be missing? It's nowhere to be found on that particular tech sheet? But don't worry it's found on the other tech sheet that we came from cousins? Unfortunately reveals up problem the studs screw is only found on some stud holders?

the first link shows our problem no stud screw? . Then brings up a problem this watch has been in production since 1971 indication it may still be in production. So why is this a problem? Then there's a nice video unfortunately it's hard to tell how much the balance wheel is wobbling.

A problem with watches that have been in production for a long time tend to have variations. We of the original version before eta took over. then there version but I was hoping to find a manufacturing information sheet from them normally it would list the various variations. But it doesn't it only shows one version. If we look at the various pictures we will see different types of balance jewel protection systems this is an indication of different qualities of this movement.

https://calibercorner.com/eta-caliber-7001/

the next link does show no studs screw and brings up the other problem? Apparently some of the watch companies had variations or a reference that this is the base caliber. This is because of you scroll down far enough there's a studs screw with additional screw? The additional screw more than likely is a micro adjustment for the beat.

https://wornandwound.com/caliber-spec-peseuxeta-7001/

this next link is interesting because it has lots of pictures of your movement. But also look at the quality of this particular movement versus the one you have confirming that the watch came in various quality grades.

http://horology-student.org/movements/modern-eta-and-clones/eta-peseux-7001/

for now I think I wouldn't worry about taking the stud off the bridge. You can disassemble the watch practice reassembling cleaning lubrication etc. Each time if you're cleaning you can remove the balance jewels make sure you put the spring back that was holding them in place. The balance wheel can go back on the main plate with its screw ill be safe there.

That as far as the balance wheel are getting damaged in the plastic container extremely doubtful. In order to bend the balance wheel you'd have to push on it far enough that the balance protection for the pivots allow the bottom of the balance wheel or the top to come in contact with the main plate which would protect the pivots then with additional hard pressure you would bend the rim of the balance wheel. I suspect you could basically in its shipping container drop across a tabletop or even drop it on the floor that should survive without bending the balance wheel. Only somebody handling the movement inappropriately should normally cause it to get bent. But I think for now I wouldn't worry about that.

It would also be nice if you had a timing machine? This is where when you're starting out it's nice to time your incoming watch in a couple of different positions verify that it's running. Then when you disassemble and later reassemble it should look like it did before or conceivably better. This is why it's always good to start with a new movement as opposed to trying to repair or something when you're trying to learn and trying to repair at the same time it usually doesn't end up well and it's easy to blame the nonrunning watch on that was the condition when you found it.

 

Wow thanks for your detailed reply! Actually I don't have a microscope, just using my Bergeon 15x loupe and my iphone camera.

that picture without the stud screw is quite interesting. Maybe the movement did come without a stud screw after all, but some of the technical drawings for the 7001 show with a stud screw and some without as part of the stud support.

another thing I noticed while looking at the stud support for the eta 7001 (40.200.00) is that the same reference number is used for different calibers and looks different? How would one go about ordering it? Must the movement be specified also?

i will get a timing machine soon, but not just yet. The amount I spent on tools this month already is way more than the practice movement

Edited April 26, 2021 by ifibrin

[JohnR725]

5 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

that picture without the stud screw is quite interesting. Maybe the movement did come without a stud screw after all, but some of the technical drawings for the 7001 show with a stud screw and some without as part of the stud support.

another thing I noticed while looking at the stud support for the eta 7001 (40.200.00) is that the same reference number is used for different calibers and looks different? How would one go about ordering it? Must the movement be specified also?

the problem with the stud screw is it probably was originally there but for manufacturing reasons it was removed. I'm attaching another image that comes out of the 2019 technical guide you can very clearly see no stud screw. Then the other guy specifies special stadtholder so sometimes you do is sometimes you don't. All the companies that make their own or basically modify this that's where they probably do have a stud screw.

the problem with the original old Swiss number  system is each part had a number but that number referred to every single watch having that same part? Like for instance balance wheel 721 every single watch with the balance wheel will probably have that number. There may be some variations because of then I have a little bit different number. It's only in the very newest tech sheets do they start to have the other numbers which are supposed to be unique for each part.

So basically anytime you're ordering apart that part number like 721 is equivalent to the word balance wheel. You then still have to specify which caliber of watch like in this case you would say I have a eta  7001 if you wanted the balance wheel 721 and I would still say the words balance wheel. Which of course is why the Swiss go to new numbers where everything is unique and we don't have this confusion.

then when I was find interesting is some parts will interchange with other watches. Some parts like the balance wheel conceivably may interchange with only a few things if anything. But the stud screw being more common errors changes with all the law of  Watches.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=Yc]MVF[

 

[ifibrin]

6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

the problem with the stud screw is it probably was originally there but for manufacturing reasons it was removed. I'm attaching another image that comes out of the 2019 technical guide you can very clearly see no stud screw. Then the other guy specifies special stadtholder so sometimes you do is sometimes you don't. All the companies that make their own or basically modify this that's where they probably do have a stud screw.

the problem with the original old Swiss number  system is each part had a number but that number referred to every single watch having that same part? Like for instance balance wheel 721 every single watch with the balance wheel will probably have that number. There may be some variations because of then I have a little bit different number. It's only in the very newest tech sheets do they start to have the other numbers which are supposed to be unique for each part.

So basically anytime you're ordering apart that part number like 721 is equivalent to the word balance wheel. You then still have to specify which caliber of watch like in this case you would say I have a eta  7001 if you wanted the balance wheel 721 and I would still say the words balance wheel. Which of course is why the Swiss go to new numbers where everything is unique and we don't have this confusion.

then when I was find interesting is some parts will interchange with other watches. Some parts like the balance wheel conceivably may interchange with only a few things if anything. But the stud screw being more common errors changes with all the law of  Watches.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=Yc]MVF[

 

 

The reason I thought the stud support was missing a screw is due to the hole I saw in the support, with the screw threads drilled in. However as you said some of the new tech documents show an empty hole as well.

is there any way to know if parts will be compatible? I thought the newer Long part numbers would be more specific but it doesn't appear so!