Pocket watch - keyless testing

[PeterS]

There is no bolt screw on the pocket watch I have here. I understand that the stem and the crown will stay in the sleeve and I will be able to unscrew the stem from the crown after the movement has been removed.
What I don't know is how am I going to test the keyless work and wind the mainspring. I suppose that when I unscrew the stem and crown I can remove it, assemble it and use it for winding, alternatively I could use my screwdriver and wind it directly via the ratchet wheel. I'm more concerned about testing the keyless, time setting, what holds the stem in? How do I pull to test it before I put it back in the case?

[nickelsilver]

This sounds like a negative setting watch, normal for American pocket watches. When you pull it out of the case it will go into setting position; usually there is a small lever to tip to that it goes into winding so that it runs outside the case. To wind, you would have bench keys that are male squares, I'm pretty sure most supply houses still carry these. Without them it's tricky to wind and unwind- screwdriver on the ratchet wheel is a good way to break the ratchet wheel screw, and when letting down, to let the power slip and go all at once.

[AlexanderToerzs]

Hi Peter,

"...wind it directly via the ratchet wheel."

Nickelsilver pointed it out and I did it - once broke the ratched wheel screw. Will never do it again.

Cheers Alex

 

[KarlvonKoln]

What Nickelsilver said ^.  I have an antique six-way bench key (with all ends intact!) and a larger double-ended one for the occassional 16s and 18s.  A screwdriver will work if you're careful, but a bench key, like any good tool, will help you enjoy life a little more. 

[PeterS]

How does it differ to autos which I can normally wind via the ratchet wheel or should I not do that?

I'm struggling to find the male bench keys, there are plenty of female star keys but I can't see the male keys. Perhaps no longer in production and looking on Ebay would be the way?

[nickelsilver]

Dave's Watch Parts has some, the first one listed looks like it should handle about anything.

 

http://www.daveswatchparts.com/BenchKeys.html

 

This would be a typical tool watchmakers might make in school back in the day, they would be double ended with a different size square at each end. Good practice filing the squares (usually freehand). If you want to make one it doesn't have to be perfect. You might even find some square rod in a hobby shop that is already a good size, or close to it, which you can just cut a piece off of and hold in a pinvice.

Edited March 28, 2021 by nickelsilver

[PeterS]

I came across this one while searching. It certainly is an option.
I'm in the UK so still looking whether I could find something that could be delivered quicker and save on shipping charges.

I came across 'clock key gauge' a set of 18 from 1.75mm to 6mm:
https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/clock-key-gauge?code=G32018

Would this do the job holding it in a pin vice?

[watchweasol]

I have the feeling that those squares are fixed to the gauge for reference,  Get hold of a bit of scrap brass or steel rod and file up a square, once done and fitted to a handle  got it for life.

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

bench keys

Typically the bench key is came in a set of three. That correspond to all sizes of American pocket watches. Probably the only way you're going to find them now is on eBay as they don't appear to be a standard item for sale on the material house websites.

6 hours ago, PeterS said:

ratchet wheel or should I not do that

The problem here is your risking breaking the screw head off. True like a Seiko watch that's actually the recommended method for winding as there is no stem winding on a lot of those. An American pocket watch it's risky to do that there's a lot of force required especially if you go to the bigger size movements you risk breaking the head off.

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Get hold of a bit of scrap brass or steel rod and file up a square, once done and fitted to a handle  got it for life.

A alternative providing you have replacement screwdriver tips would be to find a screwdriver of the right size and grind that square.

Then here's a picture I found online as I don't have a picture of mine handy of what you're looking for on eBay.

[PeterS]

Thanks guys! I think filing a steel or brass rod will be the way to go. I have plenty of spare screwdriver blades so that's probably going to be my best option.
I'd be tempted the to get the one from Dave's watch parts but one end is broken and knowing my luck it would be the one I need.

It was a Seiko I was thinking of, I was scratching my head how else I'd do it except turning the first reduction wheel for ages.

[KarlvonKoln]

I snagged these off Etsy.  My six way is in perfect shape.  So is my double-ended key, for that matter.  They're worth the investment if you do much work on antique watches,  or anything with a negative stem movement.