Roamer mst 372 not running

[Johndub]

Hello again, 

Beginner here, so this might be something simple. I've got this old roamer, seems very cool. Have had it apart, all seemed ok. Gear train was moving freely, mainspring seems to work, balance looks ok, but it's still not running. 

Anyone have any tips on these movements, anything I should look out for? The balance seems very close to the lower plate, don't know if that might be a problem - 60/70 years old, maybe it's had a few knocks in its life. 

John 

[Rafael]

I'm no expert by any means, so just throwing in some thoughts: 

Was the parts cleaned and lubricated prior to reassembly?

How did you check the mainspring?

Are you sure that you assembled everything in order?

Did you check the pivots?

[Johndub]

Hi Rafael, 

The mainspring has power, when i wind then release the click, it spins. Everything is in order, pivots etc in place. Only cleaned it briefly, i guess a more thorough cleaning might help 

[HectorLooi]

Before putting back the balance, did you test to see if the pallet snaps crisply from side to side?

Did you remove the balance jewels to clean and lubricate?

[Nucejoe]

Dose oscillator swing when the movement is wiggled? 

Is impulse in beat ?

Dose it not run in all positions?

Can you feel any free play on the staff ( end shake)?

Turn the oscilator like 60 degrees, let go, dose oscilator do a swing and dose fork move? 

Balance looking close to mainplate either means pivot on mainplate side is short/ broken or the jewel housing is to be moved up.

Dose roller table sit on the fork? 

Did you remove both end stones to check the jewels, dose it show excess end shake?

 

 

 

[Johndub]

Excellent, thanks for the responses.

Hector, the pallet seemed fine. I've never removed balance jewels, so that's something to try. 

Nucejoe, those are good suggestions, though honestly with things like endshake i wouldn't be knowledgeable enough to recognise if it's right or not. 

I think I'll start again, disassemble and clean, and have a closer look at those points. 

John 

[Johndub]

It does seem like something is happening between the mainspring and the escapement, possibly between the mainspring and the gear train, as its not transmitting any power, or at least there's no movement. The gear train moves freely when the mainspring barrel is removed 

[Nucejoe]

Grab balance rim with you tweezers, check  axial freedom of the staff, if no end play, end stones could be pushing on pivots.  Loosen cock screw a turn or two to create some end play. 

Sounds like pivot shoulder rubs on the lower jewel housing, to test, see if it runs face up.

Grab a spoke of the center wheel with tweezers and turn the wheel.

Was it running before? are yòu sure balance is in beat. Do you know how to check for in beat.

[Johndub]

It wasn't running, i got it in a box of approx 50 movements and whole watches, some running, some not. This one wasn't, but it's all there and looks in reasonable condition, no visible damage etc. 

No idea how to check if it's in beat 

[watchweasol]

One idea to check the balance freedom,   power down the movement and remove the pallet then refit the balance and as Nucejoe suggested check the oscillation of the balance without any power for end shake/side shake  etc

[Johndub]

Ok, cool. I've got it disassembled again, cleaning it with naptha. Will fit the balance on its own and see how that looks. 

Is naptha safe to use on all parts? I feel i read somewhere that maybe not on the pallet? 

[Rafael]

Just now, Johndub said:

Ok, cool. I've got it disassembled again, cleaning it with naptha. Will fit the balance on its own and see how that looks. 

Is naptha safe to use on all parts? I feel i read somewhere that maybe not on the pallet? 

Naptha is good for all parts. You shouldn't use IPA on the pallet fork and balance assembly as it may damage the shellac. 

[Rafael]

9 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Naptha is good for all parts. You shouldn't use IPA on the pallet fork and balance assembly as it may damage the shellac. 

For all movement parts that is

[Nucejoe]

Oh goodness, when the fork is out, if oscilator comes to rest with its impulse jewel in midpoint between the banking pins, impulse would then be in beat , in such case, staff and fork and escape pivits should fall on a straight line.

[Nucejoe]

No need to disassemble, if you suspect lube problem, drop a bit of naphta or lighter fluid on top of end stones( both side) it will penetrate to the jewels and temporarely softens gummed up oil, oscilator then picks up and run.

[Johndub]

Good to know Nucejoe. 

Just dropped and lost the setting spring lever screw, so the current challenge is to find that. I'd put the the keyless works back together and was working on seating the gears 

[Nucejoe]

I get the magnet to retract it, even if you don't have a demag, one magnetized screw wouldn't affect the hairspring.

 

 

[anilv]

Balance jewels definitely need to be cleaned.  A bit fiddly as you need to dismount the balance from the cock but no way around it. Don't be tempted to remove the balance jewel screws thru the hairspring... on that path lies disaster!.

Anilv

[Nucejoe]

Anvil said it "No way around it"   remove, check, clean and lube end stones& jewels, that is standard proceedure. I have made a habbit of soaking the cock in coca cola or you can put penetrating oil on them two little screws and make sure to use the right and dressed screwdrivers, to reduce the risk of ordering from cousinsuk.

To test for llubrication issue, I just drop some lighter fluid on jewel assembly.

[Johndub]

Thanks for all the advice, it'll be very useful for other projects as I'm learning. Unfortunately i broke the top arbor of the escape wheel last night (as well as losing the setting spring lever screw). 

So the roamer is beyond my fixing abilities for now anyway. I do see that cousins have them, but at 20 pounds plus 10 shipping, so I'll be leaving it aside for now. Maybe a parts one will show up on ebay 

[HectorLooi]

3 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

I have made a habbit of soaking the cock in coca cola or you can put penetrating oil on them two ....

Does anyone else think this sentence sounds bad? Or should I disinfect my brain with Chlorox? 

[Johndub]

35 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Does anyone else think this sentence sounds bad? Or should I disinfect my brain with Chlorox? 

Well, seems there's a lot of questionable terminology in this hobby. 

Setting screw lever turned up this morning. Scoured the floor last night and no sign, then there it was on the table this morning. So that's a positive. 

 

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Does anyone else think this sentence sounds bad? Or should I disinfect my brain with Chlorox? 

Oh my..