Seiko 7005 Ticking sound going quiet intermittently

[steve1811uk]

Hi,

 

I have cleaned and I am in the process of rebuilding a Seiko 7005 movement. Apologies in advance that I do not have a proper timegrapher at my disposal at this time. Anyway I am experiencing an issue where the ticky ticky sound from the escapement is intermittently going quiet, like it is being muted. The APP on my phone is picking this up. Interestingly the rate is not changing. The phenomenon can happen in all positions but seems to be more prevalent in the vertical ones. Amplitude seems very good by eye, I can stop the balance and then watch it spin up to over 270 degrees face up. Rate in all positions is within plus or minus 5 seconds compared to face up. I've attached two traces, one with normal tick sound and one that shows the tick sound go quiet half way across the trace. The peaks then are much smaller and seem to have a smaller peak right next to the main peak. Any idea what could be happening here?

 

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[jdm]

19 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

 

Anyway I am experiencing an issue where the ticky ticky sound from the escapement is intermittently going quiet, like it is being muted.

Record the sound and post it ? It make no sense that it doesn't make noise but the balance swings.

19 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

The APP on my phone is picking this up. Interestingly the rate is not changing.

That means nothing, rate is probably averaged over a time period.

[steve1811uk]

Here goes, both recorded at same spot on balance cock and at the same recording level.

normal2 quiet3

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Apologies in advance that I do not have a proper timegrapher at my disposal at this time.

if the watch physically is keeping time don't worry about it. The timing apps and our experience on the message board has been basically it's a waste of our time to even look at your problem until you get something that resembles a real timing machine. Both the Chinese 1000 and 1900 are highly recommended by the people on this discussion group relatively cheap and they work really well.

 

[Nucejoe]

What app opens these attachments? 

 

[steve1811uk]

What app opens these attachments? 
 

Any kind of music player that can play. Wav files.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[jdm]

9 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Any kind of music player that can play. Wav files.

But your files have no extension, and won't open without renaming.
However is JonhR275 is right above: get yourself a timegrapher.

[steve1811uk]

But your files have no extension, and won't open without renaming.
However is JonhR275 is right above: get yourself a timegrapher.

That's in the plans, wonder what people did before timegraphers came about? Anyway I have been thinking about the problem and doing a lot of reading. Going to have a look at the mainspring barrel arbour lubrication today. I had previously over lubricated the barrel and spring causing the mainspring to slip in the barrel. So I had stripped it down, rebuilt and doing so I didn't lubricate the barrel arbour in its barrel holes. I think it might be binding slightly and then releasing causing variation in power delivery. That's my theory and it is plausible.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[steve1811uk]

They are .wav files, no idea why the Tapatalk app on Android stripped that when I uploaded.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[jdm]

6 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

They are .wav files, no idea why the Tapatalk app on Android stripped that when I uploaded.

Will you let me share another bit of advice. You will find that the high quality of this forum software allows easy, full and unhindered access to all features directly from a mobile browser.

[steve1811uk]

54 minutes ago, jdm said:

Will you let me share another bit of advice. You will find that the high quality of this forum software allows easy, full and unhindered access to all features directly from a mobile browser.

Thanks JDM, I am giving that a go right now. Hope it works out better than using the app.

[steve1811uk]

Well, I cleaned and rebuilt this afternoon and lubricated the barrel arbour. The quiet ticking still appears to come and go dependent on the watch position but there doesn't appear to be any logic to when it happens. Anyway I have decided just to accept it as the watch is old and the issue is probably caused by wear. Watch has good amplitude and the rate is stable. Really happy with this Seiko. It's for my wife also made in 1972.

[Nucejoe]

Vid is clear but audio?    Heard no ticking at all much less come and go.

Did you check side shakes on fork arbour and staff pivots?

Regards

 

[steve1811uk]

48 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Vid is clear but audio?    Heard no ticking at all much less come and go.

Did you check side shakes on fork arbour and staff pivots?

Regards

 

To be honest I didn't. I will read up on that subject as my knowledge is obviously lacking here. Would excessive side and end shake cause a variation to the ticking sound?

9 hours ago, jdm said:

Will you let me share another bit of advice. You will find that the high quality of this forum software allows easy, full and unhindered access to all features directly from a mobile browser.

Thanks JDM, I am giving that a go right now. Hope it works out better than using the app.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by steve1811uk
.wav files didn't upload correctly

[JohnR725]

20 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Any kind of music player that can play. Wav files

you're right it is a wave file but there's a problem downloading as the extension is missing. That means I needed to download it tell windows which program to open it and it opened it and I can play it. I've uploaded the files again I've added the wave extension hopefully there now playable for all of us.

it would've been nice if you had posted a file that reflected the problem you're observing versus two separate files. In other words one file where we hear normal ticking that drops to quiet and goes back to normal.

5 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

To be honest I didn't. I will read up on that subject as my knowledge is obviously lacking here. Would excessive side and end shake cause a variation to the ticking sound?

as a reminder timing machines have microphones not capacitive microphones. Capacitive microphones are designed to pick up audio. Timing machine microphones typically piezo are designed to pick up the vibration of the watch ticking. They really do not want audio as typically that has background noise. Like in yours both of them have way too much background noise to the ticking itself. In the quiet version is that an airplane I hear at the beginning in the distance? basically to hear the ticking I have to crank the volume up and there's way too much background noise.

 

Normal2.wav Quiet3.wav