Sarcar - late 50s – in over my head I think!

[JayS]

I mentioned to a friend that I'd been tinkering (mostly unsuccessfully) with watches (all Timex #31 movements) and he offered me the chance to try and fix his father's watch, which is a Sarcar from the late fifties. Nasty band missing a buckle. All kinds of crumbly blue-green patina/corrosion. Crystal (doesn't seem original) pretty well scratched up.

After cleaning the band with saddle soap and leather restorer, polishing the crystal, and scraping as much crud off the case as I could, I opened it up to find quite a pretty interior, though something way beyond anything I've ever opened up. Seems like the mainspring is taking a load, but nothing is moving. From the looks of it, I think I can pop the stem out and remove the movement, allowing access to clean the face, but I'm not sure if I should even begin anything more. The case cover has some dates on it, with the most recent service looking to be from '68 (his father died when he was very young and he's probably never had the watch serviced himself).

My comfort level says just clean everything up and point him in the direction of getting it serviced. But another part of me is thinking that going a few screws deep  isn't going to hurt anything and I may learn something in the process. Just document along the way. It's not like my Timex where I could lose a piece and have a back-up...

[Chrono15]

Likely just bound up with dirt, etc. IF I had to guess, the third wheel has a bind. It clearly needs a service as well.. The center wheel you can see a huge piece of gunk clinging.

 

I would be very careful with working on a sentimental piece. The last thing you want to do is damage it. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Chrono15

[jdm]

27 minutes ago, Chrono15 said:

I would be very careful with working on a sentimental piece. The last thing you want to do is damage it. 

This. But there is an easy solution, buy a a similar watch or mov't, that could cost 15 pounds maybe. Practice on it until you can take it apart and reassemble almost blindfolded. Accumulate a modicum of tools and materials in the meanwhile, less than 100 pound say. You be then ready to work on the original, and many others.

[watchweasol]

Now there is some sound advise from jdm.  If you can do a timex this should be easier. But heed jdm's advise and practise , practise on a cheapie both you and your friend will benifit from the knowledge gained.  wish you well

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, JayS said:

I mentioned to a friend that I'd been tinkering (mostly unsuccessfully) with watches (all Timex #31 movements) and he offered me the chance to try and fix his father's watch, which is a Sarcar from the late fifties.

We live in a interesting world where quite a few people do not realize that things can be fixed. That even less people know anyone who can fix a watch. So if you make the mistake of mentioning to anyone that you can fix watches suddenly all kinds of people will have watches for you to fix.

Then of course the problem do you really want to work on your friends watches? Like for instance if you break the watch will this person be understanding and still be your friend or will they be unhappy?

My preferred thought is you should start on something like a ETA caliber 6497 or 6498 Clone off of eBay. You really do need to practice on a running watch which is why you get a new watch there really cheap off of eBay. Then you can practice taking it apart putting it back together and if it doesn't work after you put it back together because it was running in the first place you know who to blame. Typically when people start with broken watches and there's still broken they'll blame that on the watch versus may be who was playing with the watch. Then you really should stay away from pin lever watches and Timex watches as yes they can be fixed but they have their own challenges which can lead the frustrations for beginners.

Than the recommended watch I have is nice because the technical sheet available and the Swiss even have the link below the step-by-step disassembly and  reassembly instructions.

http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/6497/6947.html

2 hours ago, JayS said:

From the looks of it, I think I can pop the stem out and remove the movement,

I think you'll find if you really want to remove the movement the stem comes out, the two case screws and the movement goes out through the front which means you have to take the crystal off.

[Nucejoe]

This is an early peseux 320, a fine movement jeweled pallet and true work horse, one piece stem and a front loader.

Countless brands housed one, though different grades. 

I too recommend it be entrusted with experienced hands to tick for another generation.

Regards 

[jdm]

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Then you really should stay away from pin lever watches and Timex watches as yes they can be fixed but they have their own challenges which can lead the frustrations for beginners.

What are the challenges on pin levers? I have one on my bench which already gave me a bad surprise, which I shall recount separatey.

[JohnR725]

7 minutes ago, jdm said:

What are the challenges on pin levers?

Unfortunately I'm not  an expert on pin lever watches. They're usually made at a price which was cheap I don't think they were really meant to be repaired they have interesting ways of doing things.  If I try to remember my experience with anything I've worked on the lack of jewels the lack of quality they tend to wear out faster than a normal watch would. So I'm probably just personally biased and not remembering any happy pleasant experiences from anything I touched in the past. But maybe that's just a bad memory.

May be other reason I pointed this out was the person who posted this discussion commented about the lack of success working on Timex watches. A watch that at one time the method of repair would've been to just swap the entire movements. But there are other people on this group currently working on pin lever watches for which I was surprised there were actually parts lists available.

 

[watchweasol]

The pin lever watch and I have done a few of those is no worse a watch than any other just requires a little different thinking , still got some pin levers and still working. They were build for a price range same as timex, both decent watches and were workhorse movements. Like a rolls royce and a mini both get you there both do the same job one has a bit more snob value. Pin levers tell the time same as a 17 jewel or rolex and the snob value is just the same.

[JayS]

17 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Then you really should stay away from pin lever watches and Timex watches as yes they can be fixed but they have their own challenges which can lead the frustrations for beginners.

Lining up all the pins (5), the barrel gear, the winding bridge and the hair-spring all at ONCE when reassembling is a nightmare experience for me...

[JayS]

15 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

This is an early peseux 320, a fine movement jeweled pallet and true work horse, one piece stem and a front loader.

Countless brands housed one, though different grades. 

I too recommend it be entrusted with experienced hands to tick for another generation.

Regards 

Since it looks like John's right about the crystal needing to come off to even clean up the face, I think there's not much I can do here other than recommend someone to service it. Even my time polishing the crystal may be wasted since he may opt for a new/correct one. This one sits too high.