Vintage one day wind clock,cannot time it

[chriseames168]

Hi,hope someone can help me please.have a old vintage air spring one day wind up clock and cannot time it, the adjustment on the air spring is not doing anything,and the clock just running away and time is not any issues on the hands,how can you resolve this problem.been trying to adjust spring but beat goes out and stops.

[Nucejoe]

Hi, Sounds like the regulator arm doesn't properly engage the hairsprings to regulate.. Will you show a close up, focus on regulator arm and its slot where hairsprings is suppose to go through.  

[clockboy]

Check the Hairspring outer coil inside the regulator adjusting pins

[oldhippy]

I would like to see photos before I comment. 

[chriseames168]

14 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi, Sounds like the regulator arm doesn't properly engage the hairsprings to regulate.. Will you show a close up, focus on regulator arm and its slot where hairsprings is suppose to go through.  

 

[oldhippy]

Can you tell me what sort of time it gives over 24 hours, does it gain or lose time. 

[chriseames168]

12 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Can you tell me what sort of time it gives over 24 hours, does it gain or lose time. 

It gains about 3 hours a day 24 hours 

[oldhippy]

I would say it could have had a different spring fitted and its to strong or it has the wrong hairspring. My guess its the main spring. Try a weaker spring. I cant tell by the photo but the movement looks like a 2 inch movement, if so it should be replaceable. Do you know the size? 

[chriseames168]

Hi, I have just looked and think it is 3 inches wide.using a tape measure,,

[oldhippy]

Looking at today's clock part suppliers, it looks as if they only supply Quirts movements , no longer do they have the old 30 hour ones. So I don't know what you would like to do, look at suppliers and get a Quirts or try a weaker spring. 

[Nucejoe]

Hairsprings coil, should be flat, level and concentric.

It looks unlevel and  not concentric in the picture, likely to touch the main plate.

Luckily, It looks undamaged though, perhaps the regulator are in pushed down causing the coil to sit oblique. 

Check what is causing the hairsprings to sit unlevel, it will time fine once hairsprings is sorted out.

Perhaps the picture did not open for OH.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Nucejoe
Correction Regulator arm is pushed down.

[chriseames168]

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Hairsprings coil, should be flat, level and concentric.

It looks unlevel and  not concentric in the picture, likely to touch the main plate.

Luckily, It looks undamaged though, perhaps the regulator are in pushed down causing the coil to sit oblique. 

Check what is causing the hairsprings to sit unlevel, it will time fine once hairsprings is sorted out.

Perhaps the picture did not open for OH.

How do you get the regulator arm back up then please,if pushed down,

[Nucejoe]

On 3/9/2020 at 10:04 PM, chriseames168 said:

 

Hairsprings coil clearly touches the regulator pin.as the coil expands in every oscillation, effectively shortening the active length of hairspring,  the coil is also not concentric and unlebel unlevel.  Therefore, runs fast.

The issue with the main spring OH is helping with, is totally another issue.

[chriseames168]

Ok thank you,how do you stop the pin touching coil without it going out of beat.

[Nucejoe]

 Hairspring may even foul itself and clearly need sorting out.

 If you didn't see it touching the main plate, you got one less item to sort out.

Regards 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi   Has this clock been dismantled and cleaned,  and the balance re fitted because as Nucejoe explained the spring is not concentric and bearing on the regulator.  I would un pin the balancespring and remove the balance and check the concentricity of the spring and its flatness. Having done that re fit the balance .and refit the spring through the regulator slot and re pin lightly maintaining the flat profile and getting the balance in beat   you should be able to  move the regulator aroung the arc of the outer coil without it moving the coil, If that happens then the spring will require adjustment to achieve that aim. Without that timing the clock will be a lottery.

[Nucejoe]

11 minutes ago, chriseames168 said:

Ok thank you,how do you stop the pin touching coil without it going out of beat.

Manipulate the hairspring to get all circles concentric. Mark teaches it in one of his lessons. Start by pushing on the free end of hairspring ( between reg pin and the stud)

[oldhippy]

I feel I must apologies for the remarks I have given about the problem with this clock. My eyes are not good these days, it wasn’t until a member mentioned that the hairspring wasn’t right that I magnified the photos to take a look. I could then see what the problem was. Well done members for sorting this out. I will now sit in the corner.  

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I feel I must apologies for the remarks I have given about the problem with this clock. My eyes are not good these days, it wasn’t until a member mentioned that the hairspring wasn’t right that I magnified the photos to take a look. I could then see what the problem was. Well done members for sorting this out. I will now sit in the corner.  

To our much beloved master watchmaker moderator  OH  .

[watchweasol]

Old Hippy  No need to apolgise at all your words of wisdom are appreciated by all. One can only repeat Nucejoe's sentiments. to a gentleman and a scholar.

[chriseames168]

Hi, been doing the spring adjustment for speed and balance but still running much to fast.not happy 

[oldhippy]

If you have let the hairspring out as far as it will go and it is good between the regulator in all positions. I'm assuming the balance has a good action.  Then you need to try as I previously said a weaker mainspring. 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

If you have let the hairspring out as far as it will go and it is good between the regulator in all positions. I'm assuming the balance has a good action.  Then you need to try as I previously said a weaker mainspring. 

Hi OH, Am I right to think, a mainspring partially wound, correspondingly delivers less torque. If so, for instance,  OP can wind a third of full, thence get less torque, in effect as if using  a weaker spring. 

Hi Chris, will you mark on the pic the part you think a gear should be mounted on.

[oldhippy]

It doesn’t work that way. That is like asking if you wind a watch only part way will it lose time from when you fully wind it. The whole power of the main spring is distributed evenly.   

[watchweasol]

Hi  What sort of a rate error do you have, is is gaining substansialy,  You say the balance is running too fast, from that I deduce that it is gaining in time. If you could quantify it   e.g.   10min   per Hour.  and as Old Hippy said is the balance spring pinned at its limit and is the beat ok.     There is an app on the apple store (CLOCKMASTER ) which is handy for tuning clocks . I use it as a mobile device . There are others available but I personally found this one the best.              Cheers