Repair Of A Carriage Clock

[Vich]

A while ago I posted that a relation had a carriage clock that was not working any more. It is not particularly expensive but he bought it for his mother when he was an apprentice. That was a considerable time ago so we are talking about sentimental value. I removed the four obvious screws that allowed me to remove the housing with three sides leaving the fourth side attached to the works by the winder and pointer adjuster. The pointer adjuster looks like a friction fit that will tug off but can anyone advise how this sort of winder comes off. I have released the tension on the barrel more or less the same way I do a watch but I was advised that his wife was winding it up and lost concentration for a while and "felt something go". There was still quite a bit of tension there though and I had to let the winder go round quite a few times. I tried another wind up and after two winds felt a bit of a thump then it seemed to continue ok. It also looks like it needs a good clean. Oddly I just looked at it and whilst I was writing this it appears to have started !

[Vich]

Tried winding it and again another thump - think I will have to look in the barrel. Any advice will be greatly appreciated as I have never tinkered with a clock up to now.

Cheers, Vic

[Geo]

Hi Vic, they usually screw off in the opposite direction to winding. :-)

[clockboy]

As Geo suggests they normally screw off anti-clock wise. When you un-wind & it is thumping it is almost certainly that the spring is not attached to the arbour. This is normally the spring hole that attaches it to the arbour is split. If you can loosen the plate a bit to gain access the barrel arbour then it needs holding while unwinding.

WARNING if the spring it not broken & it is still under tension these can do a lot of damage to the clock & yourself.

I have not worked on this particular clock but the springs can be repaired if the spring is not to badly split. You have to cut off the damaged part & punch a new hole. If not mainsprings are generally available in most supply houses.

Edited December 28, 2014 by clockboy

[Vich]

Its still going strong ever since i noticed it had started at about 5.25.  If the spring was bust or out of place would it still work for so long?  Anyway I will have a shot at unwinding the key.  I notice that this one winds up anti clockwise - is that normal ? and if so it would seem that I would need to unwind the key clockwise to remove it - all seems a bit odd.

 

Cheers,

Vic

Edited December 28, 2014 by Vich

[Geo]

My carriage clock is key wind and winds anticlockwise. You will definately have to unscrew the handle clockwise.

Geo!

Edited December 28, 2014 by Geo

[clockboy]

Ok I have done a little bit of research. Under the two jewels unadjustable stamp on the back is the date of manufacture.

i.e May 1973.

 

There are several vids on youtube of the Schatz Sohne carriage clock. Looking at the vids it looks like it is a pin lever escapement driven by a hairspring & balance.  It,s worth approx £100.

 

As stated in my first post DO NOT strip before all of the tension has been taken off. The mainspring is in a barrel and if the barrel releases uncontrollably it will do lots of damage in the blink of an eye.

[Vich]

Thanks Clockboy,

I will do that.  It was the first thing I did before I started as well, luckily I could work it out as it was a little bit like a watch.

 

I didn't think it would be that valuable, I will have to be careful.  You can clearly see the workings - quite interesting and effectively simple.

 

Cheers,  Vic

Edited December 28, 2014 by Vich

[Vich]

Ok chaps, The key was a bit stiff but eventually gave way and the pointer adjuster pulled off so all is well and the last bit of housing is off. 

 

Its still going by the way.  I am considering whether to give it an ultrasonic clean after stripping it down - what do you think.  Its not really that dirty but if it has to come apart anyway to get the barrel out so it would be possible. 

 

I mainly have Moebius oils, silicone grease and also a bottle of cheap oil - any suggestions.

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

[Geo]

A strip and a good clean can only be a good thing Vic. I'm sure Clockboy can advise on the correct lubricants for the job.

[clockboy]

In my opinion the lubricant too be used in clocks is just not critical. The purists will say different but I have tried many oils & have not seen any difference in performance. 

 

For the last year I have been using Moebius 8030 for the majority of the pivots. On the small clocks I use D5 on the small escapement pivots and I use clock grease on the mainspring. But to be honest any good quality clock oil will work.

 

If you want to start an argument talk to horologists about lubricant.

[Vich]

Works for me.

Cheers,

Vic

[clockboy]

As a follow on.  I always clean to remove the old clock oil which becomes over time a messy gunge.

 

This is the procedure I use for a simple non striking clock 

1.Strip & clean all moving parts clean plates and check using a loupe that all pivot holes are clean & clear. If not peg wood them out.

2.Check pivots for damage and grooves etc  

3.Polish the pivots (lathe or jacot required).

4.Re-assemble all moving wheels apart from the escapement & barrel. Then give them a spin to check all is free & running straight.

5.Strip & re-.assemble again with escapement & barrel

6.Lubricate give it a wind & regulate

 

Thats It

Edited December 29, 2014 by clockboy

[Vich]

Thanks for the advice,

The thing I have noticed about this clock is the singular lack of any evidence that it has been oiled. It is really dry, even under a loupe it seems bone dry and clean, I suspect this clock has been stored somewhere quite warm rather than used in the past.

I don't have a lathe etc. but will do as much as I can without.

Will post some pics, I know it's a clock and this is a watch forum but it's quite small after all [emoji6] and it is Virgin territory for me.

The pointers look like they come off the same as a watch, is that correct ?

Cheers,

Vic

[clockboy]

Yes, clock & watch repair/servicing both follow similar paths but watches require a much higher tolerance, The polishing of the pivots is not an absolute necessity but an ideal. If you follow my procedures without the polishing you will OK.

[bobm12]

Hi guys, I've been following this thread with a lot of interest. Thank you for sharing!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[altaka]

I love seeing precision movements like French roulettes or torsion clocks come in dry. They run for years after the oil turns to dust.

When you start with a lightly loaded train, polished pivots and bushings, the oil seems only to be there to lap in the rubbing surfaces to be naturally slippery. When dirt enters or forms there just isn't enough excess power to keep running and it stops before any real wear takes place. They are a joy to overhaul.

 

Al Takatsch

[Vich]

Thanks Clockboy,

I am hopeful for a good outcome. I will busy myself on cleaning operations. The pivots seem pretty good with no ridges or wearing, it is not clear to me that this clock has been used much over its lifetime and now I come to think of it I don't actually know when the spring got broken, it could have been years ago. I will have a closer look under my microscope out of curiosity but I can feel nothing at all running my nail up and down the pivots. I will probably go with your posting from 29/12 and just make sure everything is clean before putting it together and oiling.

Cheers,

Vic

[Vich]

My bid of £3.50 was successful and the spring is on the way.

 

Have not got any "clock grease" but Clockboy indicated  that the grease is not critical and I am comfortable with that advice.  I have Moebius 8300 and Castrol LM immediately available.  The Castrol is lithium based and normally used for wheel bearing and Chassis lubrication and the consistency feels about the same as the old grease so I will go with that unless anyone thinks it is an absolutely critical error.

 

Cheers,

 

Vic

[altaka]

Not sure if this was mentioned about new mainsprings

Be sure to wipe off the anti rust coating with kerosene or solvent before putting into barrel

Lots of Luck

Al

[clockboy]

I agree with above. What ever lubricant you put on the spring it should very fine amount

[Vich]

Thanks for the help Al and Clockboy. I did not even know about cleaning off the spring first. I was just going to slide it halfway in and try removing the restraining wire and push it in fully but I shall now don the leather gloves etc.

It should not be too bad coiling it in as my wrists ( unlike my knees ) are in good shape ( try to resist the obvious retorts chaps ) I am currently in training repeatedly lifting a pint of Abbot Ale to my lips. Hopefully I will not screw up, at least it is easier to find on the floor if it takes flight.

Cheers, Vic

[altaka]

If you or anyone else wants plans for the Joe Collins spring winder, email me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uOsZ_ZIvLc

Its made of hard maple and is strong to protect you and the spring from damage

 

I've never had to install a spring by hand, makes me a little nervous

 

I install my MS dry, and lube it afterwards with Light Nye mainspring oil, The oil soaks in like a sponge

and the spring curling and uncurling spreads it perfectly

 

Al

[Vich]

Thanks Al, if I thought this was going to be a regular job I would certainly take you up on your offer which is greatly appreciated. The mainsprings I normally tinker with are tiny by comparison. I searched out and enjoyed your video a few days ago and the spring you were working with obvious skill looked substantial to say the least, you had to go back quite a way from the bench. Hopefully as mine is only 950 mm. With a 12 mm width I have a chance at success, we shall see. Success or fail I will learn something and I will post some photos.

Cheers, Vic

[altaka]

If you want the free Spring Winder Plans email me at   [email protected]