P Hauck Torsion clock.

[Bod]

This is my clock, I would like advice on it's problem please.

Front view.

Back plate. Plate 1607 in 400 day Repair Guide (10th ed.)  Advice on general cleaning methods appreciated.  I think this clock has been in storage for a long time, wrapped in damp white paper, which has marked the brass, and rusted the steel, some of which I have removed with a fibre glass brush.

Can you spot the problem?

The Anchor arm is bent, in two directions, and is plenty short enough.

How is the arm attached, do I straighten, or replace?

The clock runs reliably all be it loosing 1 hour a day.

My thoughts are to replace the 0.0038" spring with a 0.0040", then if reasonable time keeping can be got, then leave the anchor well alone.

Your comments please.

 

Bod

[oldhippy]

This is quite an old boy when it comes to 400-day clocks. The disk pendulum was the first type used in these clocks the ball type were later.

Charles. Terwilliger THE HOROLOVAR 400-DAY CLOCK REPAIR GUIDE. This is what you need when repairing these clocks.

I’m sure the pallet tail should be straight. Myself I would replace it. If you have removed the rust with a fibre glass brush that is good as it means the rust has not eaten into the metal.

You will need a clock mainspring winder to remove the spring. Always fit a new s/spring

These movements should be polished. I always used Brasso with a good polishing cloth then washed out in petrol, then placed in a box of sawdust to dry. Then polish all brass parts with a French chalk and a chalk brush, you can buy all these from a good clock suppliers. This will prevent the brass from tarnishing. Get yourself a bottle of Windles clock oil that is the only one you need. These movements run best on small amounts of oil, so do not fill up the oil wells.  

[watchweasol]

Hi   Bod  you have got a beauty there similar to the  Gustav Becker with the disc pendulum.  Old Hippy has just about covered everything you need to do.  I have had some anchor shafts which were screwed in and others a friction fit but it needs replacing for sure.   they are great clocks the 400 day units.

[2131tom]

It's a good looking clock which, though old, I'd think still has years still left in it. 

If it's running ok, then you're right to leave the anchor well alone.  I've just fixed one which had been 'repaired'.  That took ages to get right, partly because it took a long time for the results of each adjustment to show (the longest took about 2 hours between setting the clock going and it finally deciding to stop, though it's fine now).

Others may comment on how true it is, but I've been told to lightly grease (as opposed to oil) the mainspring, as this tends to stay in place better and for longer. 

A new suspension spring of might be a good idea to speed the clock up, although I notice that both Terwilliger and Passmore (mentioned below) say the thickness for this model is 0.0038" which leads me to wonder if there's something else wrong (weak mainspring, excess friction in the going train or a tightness of the hands?)   Then there are the oddballs: As a quick mention (though I suspect it doesn't apply here) someone I know recently had trouble getting a small 1940s deadbeat movement to run.  He tried all sorts, before finding that he'd replaced the mainspring endplate the wrong way around.  It was made to be domed slightly outwards and by incorrectly fitting it with the inward curve against the mainspring he'd reduced the power to the train.  It still ran, but not for very long.  Changing the plate around cured the problem.   

In addition to Old Hippy's suggestion of the Terwilliger book, which I have, I've found Mervyn Passmore's thin though informative book "Anniversary lock Adjusting" to be quite useful for the practical aspects of restoration work. 

On cleaning old brass, there are sometimes some persistent marks which polish seems reluctant to remove - it's almost like there's some staining taken place under the surface - I don't know what that is (some suggest that the zinc and copper migrate in part through the alloy with age).  In those cases, I've had to resort to a slightly stronger abrasive.  Fine wire wool sometimes works well.

Old Hippy's tip about the traditional method of chalking brasswork is a good one.  It's something I'd only recently been told about and it works very well.  There are some micro-waxes that I'm told you can use to protect brass but I've not used one myself yet. 

[clockboy]

With 400 day clocks the strength of the suspension spring is critical. A  little too strong or weak & you will run out of adjustment. I have in the past thinned a suspension spring just to weaken a touch. The bent anchor I suspect is a previous repairers attempt at getting it in beat. All of the 400 days I have worked on the adjustment of the beat is done by adjusting the top collet of the suspension spring, However this might have a different set up. 

[Bod]

A little more on this clock.

As the paper pointer passes block 1 there is the "tick"

Block 2 is the over swing counter-clockwise distance from 1

Block 3 is the clockwise rotation "tock" point.

Block 4 is the clockwise over swing limit.

As there is plenty of power, I'm tempted not to touch the anchor arm, all this would do, I feel is to put the mid swing point back to the middle, at present there is not much room to lower the fork to reduce the over swing, the clock has now run for 3 months in it's present condition.

I'm going to order a 0.004 spring to replace the 0.0038 in place at present, to see if the 1 in 24 hour loss can be gained.

This is the state of the main spring lubrication, found on initial inspection, using a main spring winder the coils are all perfectly free and moving nicely.

All the main parts have "91" stamped on them from the main serial number, the pendulum only has the full number in ink rather than stamped.  

Apart from the missing suspension gimbal, I have a complete factory clock, that appears to want to work, despite some previous "workmanship".

Once I have it running on time(!) then the project will be to polish it up.  Is there likely to be any factory applied lacquer on a clock of this age? (110 years)  The dome that cam with it is acrylic, so might be replaced.

 

Bod   

[oldhippy]

If you have the same distance as you put it over swing then the clock is in beat. You might need to adjust the pendulum a little for regulation.

[Bod]

Even with the pendulum fully wound in, the clock is still slow.  Setting it midway gives 3 minutes per hour slow, which is as I understand it indicative that a different suspension spring would help.

According to Horolovar an increase/decrease of 0.0001 in thickness will alter the time keeping by 4 minutes an hour.

At present I have fitted a 0.0038 spring as per the "book" but with the bent anchor arm there may be a different requirement, and with the age of this clock, it's not an exact science!

I've put a lot of time into researching this type of clock, but am very pleased at all your comments, shows that I've not wasted the effort.

I've got 2 other torsion clocks, both younger, both running ok-ish.  This Hauck is teaching me a lot!

Thanks

Bod

[oldhippy]

Are you sure, you have the correct length s/spring. As this clock has no locking device, you could shorten the s/spring.

[Bod]

I did try shortening this one, it looked odd!  Didn't alter the speed much, I could have gone shorter, but new is now on order, should arrive over the weekend.

 

Bod

[oldhippy]

I found this on good old ebay. What do you think is wrong with it.

[clockboy]

I am no expert as you know. However the hands & face look very new so thats my instinct anyway.

[Bod]

Suspension spring is a bit short.

Minute hand a bit long.

Very unusual top suspension mounting system.

The lower pendulum locking bracket looks just low enough to interfere with the lower block.

What have I missed?

 

Bod

[oldhippy]

I posted this photo just to show how stupid the clock looks with the wrong S/spring fitted.

[Bod]

That's  why I didn't want to shorten the suspension to much.  They also look strange if the pillars are too short, or the suspension is too long.  Less of a problem with newer clocks that have the centring cup to guide the pendulum.

I did cheat and look at the E-bay advert.

I've now fitted a 0.004 spring, so will see in a couple of hours if there's any improvement.

 

Bod

[oldhippy]

When I mentioned to shorten the spring I thought the pendulum would have been close to the base and not half way up the movement.

[Bod]

I tried lifting the pendulum by 1/2 an inch, made very little if any difference, but did look odd.

Any effect to be gained by shortening the spring, would be at the cost of appearance.  As a proving exercise for the rest of the clock, a useful tool.

 

Bod