Recommended watch repair kits for Luminox

[deadice]

I have a Luminox 0201 Blackout and the crown has come out. I have already sent it in to Luminox for warranty (but it was bought from amazon so they did not honour it), paid $150 to get it fixed, so I am trying to avoid another $100+ repair bill to get this watch ticking again.

I bought a cheap spring bar remover tool on ebay a while ago (for $1 shipped), when I swapped watch bands and it broke after the second usage. So I am looking for a kit that would have everything I need for the Luminox (to fix the crown), but also some other watches (Bulova, and some cheaper timex etc...)

Amazon has some kits with good reviews under $20, just wondering what the consensus is here.

Also any tips for doing the repair itself would be great. I haven't taken the back cover off yet...

[clockboy]

I am not familiar with this watch but if I am correct then it is a Quartz movement. The first thing to do is remove of the back. I would guess is a snap on back if so you will need a case knife. If a screw back then you will need a Jaxa tool. Once open you will be able to change the battery. 

[Watchtime]

If it was new bought on Amazon then there should be warranty?

Seems to be only 1 official repaircentre which is in the Netherlands...What did they do to justify $150 repaircost...on the repair itseld there is also warranty. Does it need new batteries already?

For changing bands you can use a pocketknife to remove the springbars, a small inflatable rubber ball can be of help opening the caseback if it is a screwdon. When it is pressed, the pocketknife can be of help..It is a normal Japanese quartz movt

[JohnR725]

Is the watch that you have at the link below? So if you look at the description the back is held on with four screws.Then second link shows somebody taking the back off not the same watch but looks like the back is similar. Then it's very likely you may not have the same movement inside.

https://www.luminox.com/watch-collection/land/sentry-0200-series/xl-0201-bo.htmlThe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lepND7zHFS8

[WileyDave]

tactical watch dot com lists movement as a Ronda

Movement:

Quartz RONDA 515 AIG 6

the stem would have to be ordered from supply house

7 hours ago, deadice said:

So I am looking for a kit that would have everything I need for the Luminox (to fix the crown), but also some other watches (Bulova, and some cheaper timex etc...)

You won't find a "kit" for fix stem/crown, if you mean a kit to work on watches, then those for sale on Amazon or the bay for $20, are about as robust as your "cheap spring bar" tool.

I understand you have already sunk about half of the watches retail worth in repair, Did they, (luminox) not repair correctly???? I would try to get them to do it, What was the $150 for? I know shipping and all that is a hassle, but watch still should be under warranty. if less than a year. Hope that helps.

[Ishima]

And I hate to have to be the one to say it but trying to DIY your watch repairs (as a troubled owner) is rarely a good idea, ignoring the cost of tools... well, with advice you might manage the job fine, but you're more likely to make it worse than better.

True enough if the crown just came unscrewed from the stem it's not that complicated a task, but I'm thinking that from the perspective of someone who was trained and tasked regularly to do that sort of thing. 

My advice? avoid manufacturers, they're almost always the most expensive source of repair. Find an independent or established watch repair business. (one that makes a point of doing repairs on site)

If I understand your problem correctly the internal part of the winder has come unscrewed from the external part of the winder? (it's a bigger problem if it has snapped off) There's no reason you couldn't get them re secured for a small fraction of £150, I'm thinking anywhere between £20-50 depending on how highly the watch repairer/business value their service/time and what kind of guarantee they offer.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Ishima

[WileyDave]

Sound advice Ishima, but not if he sent to mfg and watch was still under warranty,(FBN seller?) which it sounds like it's not, ( I mean a buck and a half for stem/crown?) me thinks there is more to story here.

5 hours ago, Ishima said:

My advice? avoid manufacturers, they're almost always the most expensive source of repair. Find an independent or established watch repair business. (one that makes a point of doing repairs on site)

[deadice]

Original post wasn't too clear,

I had batteries changed locally twice and had issue with sporadic time, sent it to Saltzman Watch in Rhode Island as they were the Luminox authorized repair center. Warranty was not honoured because it was bought 3rd party on amazon. Repair bill was for new battery and replace stem and crown. It was about $100 + shipping, so about $150 for me, don't have the original bill handy right now.

It was fine for about a year, then the crown came out, it was outside the warranty to get it fixed at Saltzman, and I didn't want to pay another $100-150 to fix it again, so it sat in a box.

I disassembled the watch, re-attached the crown to the stem, gave it a cleaning. When I go to re-insert the stem, it's default position is the day change function. So just rubbing against the crown it will turn and adjust the date.

How do you position it so by default, the crown doesn't operate any functions (date/time)?

All else is good right now. Attached picture of current status.

[deadice]

Ok, thought I had the placement right, reassembled everything and now the crown has unscrewed from the stem again.

Are we to use loctite on the stem? How do you prevent the crown from coming unscrewed? This is a pretty bad design flaw.

[JohnR725]

53 minutes ago, deadice said:

Are we to use loctite on the stem? How do you prevent the crown from coming unscrewed? This is a pretty bad design flaw.

Yes you use Loctite on the end of the stem in the crown to lock it in place. Just be very careful that the Loctite isn't protruding out and somehow gets into the watch.

[WileyDave]

1 hour ago, deadice said:

How do you position it so by default, the crown doesn't operate any functions (date/time)?

Most everything you want to know about the movement in link, sorry about the misunderstanding in original post. Ronda makes good movements, not great, but good.

http://www.ronda.ch/en/quartz-movements/quartz-essentials/ronda-powertech-500/caliber/515/

JohnR725 is correct about the Loctite, you may want to check and see if the threads are stripped, I'd give the guys at Saltzman a bad yelp!

Good pic of watch too! Helps a lot in answering you questions. Please give update or if you need more help.

 

[Ishima]

if an installed stem doesn't operate properly it's either a fault within the movement or that the stem was originally made too short as to not correctly engage. (this can happen only after re fitting the two pieces together for the second time)

How are you going about refitting the two pieces, without a pin vice you're almost certainly not screwing them together tightly enough, thread lock may or may not compensate for this. 

And to re iterate this needn't go to an authorized repair center, only a competent watchmaker.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Ishima

[deadice]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Yes you use Loctite on the end of the stem in the crown to lock it in place. Just be very careful that the Loctite isn't protruding out and somehow gets into the watch.

i held the threads with pliers (not too tight) while screwing the crown on by hand. applied some loctite and it's currently sitting right now.

As a fallback if this doesn't work out, is the stem a universal part that a local repair shop should have, or do they have to come direct from Luminox? I understand the crown is probably unique to Luminox.

[Ishima]

stem and movement are readily available generic parts.

[deadice]

loctite didnt cure last night (crown still unthreaded easily) giving it another try, see how it goes.

[JohnR725]

Loctite requires clean surfaces. Then we commonly toss around the term Loctite as an individual substance it's not. Comes in a whole variety of formulas with different strengths different properties you do need to have the right one.

[deadice]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Loctite requires clean surfaces. Then we commonly toss around the term Loctite as an individual substance it's not. Comes in a whole variety of formulas with different strengths different properties you do need to have the right one.

I had a blue semi-permanent one (store brand) that was 2-3 years old, maybe it is no good anymore? but it didn't seem to cure at all. crown still spins freely. are we supposed to use the full permanent one? I find it odd that loctite is the only thing holding the crown on. Would make more sense if it had a locking mechanism of some sort.

I don't want to have to constantly worry about this crown falling off randomly either.

Is contact cement a better option?

[Ishima]

Almost every watch conceived has just used a simple thread system for securing the crown and stem, the tight friction fit made when held in a pin vice in the right hands is much greater than any force applied when setting time and date. It's simple but done by someone who knows what they're doing, it's also perfectly adequate. Many repairers dont even bother to use any thread lock (a small mistake in my opinion, but im saying this to make a point) 

The design isn't what is at fault here. 

[JohnR725]

On the bottles a Loctite we have it work I've seen a expiring date although ours have gone past that. Then if you go to Loctite website you find out that thread locker which is what were using is a anaerobic adhesive which means it hardens up in the absence of air. I'm giving you a link to the website they talk about this notice the reference to metal ions? I was under the impression Loctite basically needed metal as a catalyst with the absence of air to harden up.

found what I was looking for so works on active metals their definition is brass and copper. As well as passive metals  stainless steel and plated surfaces. I notice it doesn't mention steel such as the stem itself. Normally crowns are made out of brass as yours is large I was wondering if it's made out of aluminum? 

 

http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/industrial/anaerobic-adhesive-14883.htm

 

 

 

[clockboy]

Good link John I will read with interest.

I have been using Loctite 603 for the crowns for a few years now with no issues. Maybe its not the correct thread size or grease was present before application. I have read 638 is even stronger but it really should not be necessary for a crown.

[canthus]

I use Loctite Threadlocker 248 (available from most car-part/bike-part outlets) which is a blue coloured paste in a small tube like a lipstick

As with all adhesives, utter cleanliness is essential.  Make sure you thoroughly clean the threads on the stem AND inside the crown to remove all traces of grease/oil. Make sure they are fully dry before applying a small amount of adhesive.

If the clearances in the stem/crown are bigger than normal then it may take more than 24hrs to fully set.  Make sure you screw the crown fully onto the stem as this will then close-up the threads to minimize the air gaps and quicken setting as the adhesive sets in the absence of air (ie anaerobic).

Edited January 5, 2017 by canthus
fact

[deadice]

Ok so I applied high strength loctite to the threads and the crown is secure, now the issue i'm having is the stem doesn't lock in to the mechanism. any tricks to this? i've been rotating it and it does not lock.

[deadice]

Ok it's finally fixed. Luckily the loctite didn't fully cure, even though it was untouched for 24hrs?? but with pliers on the threads I was able to back off the crown enough so it would engage the lock in the mechanism.

Lessons learned :
-Do not thread the crown on the stem until you feel resistance. There is a fairly precise position it needs to be to engage the lock mechansim in the watch and ensure that the crown is not sticking out to far on the outside of the watch.
-Loctite red 271 doesn't fully cure or doesn't work well with small threads?... (I'm probably going to return this). i was expecting something like this : 

Victory pic : tick-tock.

[Marc]

5 hours ago, deadice said:

Do not thread the crown on the stem until you feel resistance. There is a fairly precise position it needs to be to engage the lock mechansim in the watch and ensure that the crown is not sticking out to far on the outside of the watch.

Actually you should  thread the crown onto the stem until it is tight. If having done so the stem won't then engage in the movement then it is not the correct length. Geo has done an excellent walk through on fitting a new stem to the correct length here;

The issue of the crown coming loose is a result of not being able to fully tighten it on the stem in the first place.

[deadice]

6 hours ago, Marc said:

Actually you should  thread the crown onto the stem until it is tight. If having done so the stem won't then engage in the movement then it is not the correct length. Geo has done an excellent walk through on fitting a new stem to the correct length here;

The issue of the crown coming loose is a result of not being able to fully tighten it on the stem in the first place.

Then Saltzman's screwed me over and used a short stem.