Losing my mind!

[Horologent]

Ok, customer brings in a pair of identical ladies citizen watches. Neither of them are working and she states they have been in a safe for extended period of time. I check batteries and they are dead. No sign of oxidation or corrosion in either. I replace batteries in one and it begins to run. She says to hold on the other and leaves. The following day she returns and the watch with the new batt has stopped. I check batt and it’s fine. Reinstall it after cleaning the terminals, set the time and off she goes. Following day she returns, same issue and decides to try the other identical watch this time. Amazingly, this watch does the same thing. Neither of them run for 24hrs. I make sure case and stem are demagnetized and free of debris. No change. 

New movement ordered, Miyota 5R21 as a direct replacement. Movement arrives and is installed. Amazingly it runs until it reaches 12:20 and then stops. I remove it from the case and remove the stem, still stops at 12:20.  I can’t wrap my head around this.

Anyone experience anything like this before. What am I missing? I am going to install hands on original two movements and see if they stop at a specific point as well. Any ideas would be helpful, thanks

[Endeavor]

I feel for you  Perhaps not the right thing to say or any contribution to your problem, but I find your story a bit amusing

Very curious if other people can help you out and what the problem(s) turns out to be ...... follow with interest !

[Pip]

Dirt in the movement somewhere would be my guess assuming this movement does not have a date function that is jamming it?


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[rodabod]

Possibility: two movements are erratic due to dried oil in pivots. New movement is struggling with advancing date mechanism, if those components are fitted. 

[Nucejoe]

Test movements runing outside the watch case, make sure the case dose not push the stems half way out .  may I remind you, the stems are your electric switch.

.Baffles us all at first and often turns out be have rediculous cause.

 

[Jon]

Have you tried running the watch without the hands? Set the watch to 12.10, take the hands off and if it's still ticking 20minutes later, then it must be the hands on the new movement binding somewhere. The new movement could be a dud. They are cheap as chips, so it's possible.

[Nucejoe]

What movement did the manufacturer originally installed?

Perhaps MR21 just happen to fit the dial plate and the movements she brought, too, were wrong replacement by prevous repairman.

 

 

 

[clockboy]

I think it is a power reserve function. See link option 4: You need to find a instruction manual for the movement. 

[Horologent]

On 8/25/2018 at 7:31 PM, Nucejoe said:

Test movements runing outside the watch case, make sure the case dose not push the stems half way out .  may I remind you, the stems are your electric switch.

.Baffles us all at first and often turns out be have rediculous cause.

First off: Thank you to everyone who took the time to chime in, I really appreciate it.

when I first cased it up it ran to 12:20. I then removed it from the case set it to 12:00 and let it run outside the case no stem. It again ran to 12:20.

no date function in this movement, so I check that off the list

so my thoughts are that either casing it up did something to alter the mvmt which is mind boggling unlikely, or this is a bum movement, which is more likely but still crazy of a coincidence since it’s factory new. Either way, I guess my only option at this point is to order one more movement to eliminate it as the issue. 

Ill tell you what though, if I order this 2nd movement and it acts the same way, I’m gonna take it as a sign to RETIRE!

Edited August 27, 2018 by Horologent

[Horologent]

On 8/25/2018 at 7:33 PM, Jon said:

Have you tried running the watch without the hands? Set the watch to 12.10, take the hands off and if it's still ticking 20minutes later, then it must be the hands on the new movement binding somewhere. The new movement could be a dud. They are cheap as chips, so it's possible.

I thought this might me it as well so I removed the hour hand and left the minute hand so there was nothing to bind....no dice. Thanks for the idea though

[Horologent]

On 8/26/2018 at 2:46 AM, clockboy said:

I think it is a power reserve function. See link option 4: You need to find a instruction manual for the movement. 

 

thanks for posting that, I’ll have a look, interesting it mentions a second hand though

[Horologent]

On 8/26/2018 at 1:19 AM, Nucejoe said:

What movement did the manufacturer originally installed?

Perhaps MR21 just happen to fit the dial plate and the movements she brought, too, were wrong replacement by prevous repairman.

 

 

 

Original movement was a citizen 5421a. 5R21 was direct replacement. Good idea though

[Endeavor]

I've given you a "like", even if it was only already for your perseverance !!

[Nucejoe]

Could the dial and  miyota movement seem comaptable but actully not be. For instance the dial push on the gear underneath it, or the hour hand and dial center hole.etc

How about letting the movements run without dial and hands for a day or two and check the 12:20 syndrome.

 

 

[Nucejoe]

How about, miyota movements short cut electricly with the back of the case and got damaged electronicaly. All four did, I would test the fifth one outside the case.

 

 

[Horologent]

EUREKA!!!!

ok gents, thank you again to everyone who tried to brain storm this thing with me. I was just about to throw the my my out the window and retire but the fact that the hands stopped in the same position every time was really bugging me. So before finding the bottom of my favorite spirit bottle I gave the new Minotaur mvmt one more look under the microscope with the dial removed. When I looked at the hand wheel it looked like a speck of something in the teeth so I magnified. Nope! Not a speck of anything but rather IT WAS MISSING AN ENTIRE TOOTH! 

Luckily I had the wheel from the previous mvmt which was perfect. I dropped it in yesterday afternoon and it’s been keeping perfect time ever since. I’m going to give it the rest of today for a full 24 hour run, but I’m pretty certain the missing tooth was the issue. 

Thank you all, you all are AWESOME!

[Endeavor]

Another experience in the bag ........ Well done  !!    

Was, or is there a reason why the tooth got missing? Bit strange two watches with the same problem ??

Edited August 28, 2018 by Endeavor

[Horologent]

6 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

Another experience in the bag ........ Well done  !!    

Indeed, just teaches me once again not to *ass u me* new means perfect.