My First Balance Staff - Need some advive

[jdrichard]

I just completed cutting my first balance staff on a lathe. All went well on the balance/hairspring side, including undercutting and leaving enough material to make the rivet. On the roller table side however, i cut a smidgen too much. Is there any way to tighten the roller table on or di i need to cut a new staff? I thought shellac on the post would harden and keep the table on. I still need to jacott the pivots, so am i waisting my time?

 

 

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[digginstony]

I just completed cutting my first balance staff on a lathe. All went well on the balance/hairspring side, including undercutting and leaving enough material to make the rivet. On the roller table side however, i cut a smidgen too much. Is there any way to tighten the roller table on or di i need to cut a new staff? I thought shellac on the post would harden and keep the table on. I still need to jacott the pivots, so am i waisting my time?

 
 
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Amazing job and well beyond my capabilities! But I'm thinking forget the staff and concentrate on the roller table.
Try closing the hole with a suitable stake. Careful not to catch the jewel

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[jdrichard]

Amazing job and well beyond my capabilities! But I'm thinking forget the staff and concentrate on the roller table.

Try closing the hole with a suitable stake. Careful not to catch the jewel

 

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Turns out you can close the hole in a balance table using the following:

 

 

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[jdrichard]

It worked. Now all i need to do is reduce the pivot size.

Remember, i play guitar, thus the long nails:)

 

 

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[digginstony]

It worked. Now all i need to do is reduce the pivot size.
Remember, i play guitar, thus the long nails:)
 
 
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Excellent, is that a reverso staking set and you've used two stakes, the bottom being solid flat. Or is it a traditional stump ?

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[jdrichard]

Excellent, is that a reverso staking set and you've used two stakes, the bottom being solid flat. Or is it a traditional stump ?

 

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You are correct. Flat Stake on bottom and round one on the top. Took a bit of pounding as well.

 

 

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[Watchtime]

Hats off for you mate, beyond my skills this is....

[oldhippy]

You have achieved what is probably the hardest thing to make in in horology. You could have used lock tight; there are many types such as a thread lock tight, many people who make parts on lathes use it.

When using a punch you have to be very careful not to split the roller.

[jdrichard]

You have achieved what is probably the hardest thing to make in in horology. You could have used lock tight; there are many types such as a thread lock tight, many people who make parts on lathes use it.


When using a punch you have to be very careful not to split the roller.

Good advice. I'm going to cut a second balance staff this week. Finishing the pivots tonight, as my 4 new 0.2 and 0.4 round and flat carbide gravers are coming in tonight and a really need that round shape to finish the cone on the pivot.

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[jdrichard]

I have the two sets of videos on using a lathe and I have the bible book on lathes "modern watchmakers lathe and how to use it" as well as practical watch repair and many other books. I have watched and read it all so my brain has the knowledge. Then I practiced for a week (4 hours or so) on brass stock. I then cot a stem using blue steel. And then I tackled the balance staff; taking my time and measuring and fitting as I built the part. I have learned about taking it slow as I over cut the roller table shaft a bit....good lesson. Next staff will be a lot better.

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[jdrichard]

So far working on the pivot.


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[jdrichard]

Next staff


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[oldhippy]

Are you doing anything different this time?

[jdrichard]

Are you doing anything different this time?

I am taking more time to taper the shaft so I don’t over cut any part (like the roller table last time). I also got four 0.2 and 0.4 square and round carbide gravers to finish the pivot better. I also started with 1.97 mm blue steel this time, so less cutting to the first diameter.

I am going to cut the staff with the stock attached and only leaving the Roller Table side pivot to complete. So i will complete one pivot before cutting off the part and reattaching to finish the roller side. I also purchased a triangle shaped Arkansas stone to finish the pivots, just prior to burnishing.


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[jdrichard]

Finished the pivot end. Very tough work. Graved it down to .15 and used two different stones to get it to .13, same as the original.


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[jdrichard]

Finished the pivot end. Very tough work. Graved it down to .15 and used two different stones to get it to .13, same as the original.


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[digginstony]

Finished the pivot end. Very tough work. Graved it down to .15 and used two different stones to get it to .13, same as the original.


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Amazing job

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[jdrichard]

The end result

 

 

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[jdrichard]

Amazing job

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Now done, see previous comment


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[jdrichard]

Riveted on the balance staff. Had to pound a bit with the dome stake. Needed a tighter fit on the staff. Took off a bit too much metal. But alas, its on and ready to fit and trim down the length of the pivots.


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[Tim]

What you did ~works~ in an <insert zenophobic ethnic slur here> worker kind of way. If you blow a measurement on a staff, only solution is to start again. What you did would work on a clock, but centricity on a watch balance is too critical. By tightening the roller table in a staking set you've mangled the center and I'd be surprised if you got that thing even well poised. Like I said though, it will ~work~ but you've just forfeited precision and introduced positional timing variability. 

[oldhippy]

19 minutes ago, Tim said:

What you did ~works~ in an <insert zenophobic ethnic slur here> worker kind of way. If you blow a measurement on a staff, only solution is to start again. What you did would work on a clock, but centricity on a watch balance is too critical. By tightening the roller table in a staking set you've mangled the center and I'd be surprised if you got that thing even well poised. Like I said though, it will ~work~ but you've just forfeited precision and introduced positional timing variability. 

It will cause poor time keeping in a clock, so in fact it will not work.

[digginstony]

My experience with this is mainly pocket watches, in particular, "Waltham" The roller table is a friction fit and once removed for any reason can, on reassembly become loose, especially if removed several times. Reducing the bore size of the roller table is a method of rectification and would have Zero effect on the balance poise.
Also when fitting a new staff; even a factory manufactured one, on these old watches it is quite common to secure the balance wheel to the shaft in the way Jdrichard has done. Though a suitable hollow stump under the wheel arm is advisable, to avoid distortion to the balance wheel itself.

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[jdrichard]

My experience with this is mainly pocket watches, in particular, "Waltham" The roller table is a friction fit and once removed for any reason can, on reassembly become loose, especially if removed several times. Reducing the bore size of the roller table is a method of rectification and would have Zero effect on the balance poise.
Also when fitting a new staff; even a factory manufactured one, on these old watches it is quite common to secure the balance wheel to the shaft in the way Jdrichard has done. Though a suitable hollow stump under the wheel arm is advisable, to avoid distortion to the balance wheel itself.

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Digg is correct. This is a riveted staff so there is only one way to put it on. It is NOT a friction fit staff. I could have cut another staff, however, the text books do state that you can adjust the hole on the roller table the way i did it.


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[digginstony]

Before fitting the hairspring, always a good idea to check the balance wheel is running true. Riveting on these split balance wheels can lift an arm sometimes if your unlucky. And some minor adjustment to re-true the balance may be necessary

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