Esa 9150 movement circuit board not stable.

[Btsuper]

Dear all Sir,

 

I would like to fix esa 9150 circuit board but I don't know which part of component is not stable because the transistorized watch can run few min and stop. I checked all wheels and balance work fine. I suspect the problem come from circuit board but not sure where is it? Anybody can give advice?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jdm]

That would be electronic diagnosis and repair, which is not really watchmaking.
Most people replaces the entire mov.t. or board.
However in your case there hare few simple components, maybe you can test yourself with a multimeter or ask for help an electronic repairer.

[Alastair]

I'm Electronics Engineer by profession--Only amateur Horologist.....

Similar circuit to the Tuning-Fork movements, very little difference...

Test both sections of the coil first make sure its properly OK, If so, Change the cylindrical cap and resistor, and confirm transistor is OK. Nothing much else can go wrong with 'em...

Resistor is usually 2M2 and cap is 0.22uF

Expect coil resistance of around 1-2K for f/b and 6-12K drive at a guess....

Edited May 27, 2017 by Alastair

[rogart63]

You can adjust it as a normal watch i think. By putting it up in a timegrapher.  Not sure how you adjust it? But the beat error and the timing can be adjusted. Make sure the hairspring is okay. 

Check the cannon pinion also . That is something that can be worn. Have one that i should need a new cannon pinion and driving wheel on. Same construction as some other ESA or ETA movements. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by rogart63

[Btsuper]

That would be electronic diagnosis and repair, which is not really watchmaking.
Most people replaces the entire mov.t. or board.
However in your case there hare few simple components, maybe you can test yourself with a multimeter or ask for help an electronic repairer.

Thanks for your advice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Btsuper]

I'm Electronics Engineer by profession--Only amateur Horologist.....

Similar circuit to the Tuning-Fork movements, very little difference...

Test both sections of the coil first make sure its properly OK, If so, Change the cylindrical cap and resistor, and confirm transistor is OK. Nothing much else can go wrong with 'em...

Resistor is usually 2M2 and cap is 0.22uF

Expect coil resistance of around 1-2K for f/b and 6-12K drive at a guess....

Dear Alastair,
Thanks for your reply. Your advice is helpful but I am not a electronic professional so that I am not understand all items technical terms. Would you mind to show me all major components images in google. Let I can buy them at electronic shop.

By the way I try to follow your technical terms to search one component but I am not sure that right or not.

The image below, is it same to my brown circle component?


Thanks for a million
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnR725]

When the watch comes to a stop if you give the balance a push will the watch startup and run again? Then in addition to checking the wheels and balance did you follow the procedure in the service manual for dampening of the balance as they call it?

[Btsuper]

When the watch comes to a stop if you give the balance a push will the watch startup and run again? Then in addition to checking the wheels and balance did you follow the procedure in the service manual for dampening of the balance as they call it?

Dear John,

I am so green in watch repair. Would mind to show me where I can see the service manual for dampening o f the balance wheel

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnR725]

One of the problems when diagnosing electric watches is separating mechanical problems from electric problems. The problem you describe possibly could be the circuit or the something entirely different. Electric/quartz watches unlike mechanical watches with a mainspring usually don't have a lot of power so everything has to be really really free to move. Service manual attached on page 6 item number 13 is the dampening test.

 

Esa 9150.pdf

[Btsuper]

One of the problems when diagnosing electric watches is separating mechanical problems from electric problems. The problem you describe possibly could be the circuit or the something entirely different. Electric/quartz watches unlike mechanical watches with a mainspring usually don't have a lot of power so everything has to be really really free to move. Service manual attached on page 6 item number 13 is the dampening test.
 
Esa 9150.pdf

Dear John,

Thanks for for your value information. That is very helpful and let me to know more about transistorized watch and esa 9150. On manual page 6 mention that if balance wheel from turning to stop under 20 seconds, the watch need to be service, is it mean whole mechanical movement to be cleaning? ( all wheel and add oil).
Are you suspect my watch (run and stop error) is occurred from balance wheel or train wheel.

Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alastair]

That cap's value is right--But is physically huge in relation to movement elect section.

I use 1206 MLCC surface-mount X7R ceramic caps of 100V 220nF/0.22uF in value. You'll need to solder wires on 'em, or possibly theres print pads on the board it can be soldered directly to, after removal of the old tanty one.

The resistors I use are carbon-film 2M2 through-hole, 1/8W which is more or less the same as the original.

If Transistor is faulty, you'll need to determine whether the original is PNP or NPN, and choose one of the SOT23 transistors of 20-30V Vcebo, There's practically thousands to choose from, I doubt its a critical part--doesn't seem to be in Accutrons or other ESA tuning-forks anyway, you can bung any old trannie in there and it'll work providing its right polarity! Look at the BC848 (NPN) and its friends for suitable ones

Sadly, often the coils are o/c faulty--there's no cure except a new one.

Would have thought removal of pallets and refitting balance to test the electronics a valid idea....

--If it oscillates, the electronics are good--If not, they are faulty or some berk has demagnetised the watch or balance--which has tiny magnets on it.....

 

 

 

[Btsuper]

That cap's value is right--But is physically huge in relation to movement elect section.
I use 1206 MLCC surface-mount X7R ceramic caps of 100V 220nF/0.22uF in value. You'll need to solder wires on 'em, or possibly theres print pads on the board it can be soldered directly to, after removal of the old tanty one.
The resistors I use are carbon-film 2M2 through-hole, 1/8W which is more or less the same as the original.
If Transistor is faulty, you'll need to determine whether the original is PNP or NPN, and choose one of the SOT23 transistors of 20-30V Vcebo, There's practically thousands to choose from, I doubt its a critical part--doesn't seem to be in Accutrons or other ESA tuning-forks anyway, you can bung any old trannie in there and it'll work providing its right polarity! Look at the BC848 (NPN) and its friends for suitable ones
Sadly, often the coils are o/c faulty--there's no cure except a new one.
Would have thought removal of pallets and refitting balance to test the electronics a valid idea....
--If it oscillates, the electronics are good--If not, they are faulty or some berk has demagnetised the watch or balance--which has tiny magnets on it.....
 
 
 

Dear Alastair,

Thanks for your fully detail advice, let me try it first.

Thanks for million.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnR725]

 

On manual page 6 mention that if balance wheel from turning to stop under 20 seconds, the watch need to be service, is it mean whole mechanical movement to be cleaning? ( all wheel and add oil).
Are you suspect my watch (run and stop error) is occurred from balance wheel or train wheel.
 

The wording is a little bit strange but the purpose of the dampening test is to verify that the balance wheel and the rest of the watch is not dampening the energy from the balance wheel. In other words is verifying that the watch is in good running condition at least as far as this test. Esa 9154 is almost identical to the watch you have the test is the same. So the one that I grab hasn't been serviced in a very long time. So I rotated the balance wheel counterclockwise until it came to a stop which is just about one turn. Usually with balance wheel electric watches there's something to keep the balance wheel from rotating greater than one turn.  so rotating the balance wheel until it stops releasing the energy that you put into the hairspring now allows the balance wheels oscillate back-and-forth for at least 20 seconds if the watch is in good running condition. If the watch is like my watch that hasn't been serviced in forever 13 seconds.

Notice the reference to two years servicing? You can use this test for a serviced watch the verify that everything is free like it's supposed to be. You can also use it to verify that the watch needs to be serviced. So if you can't get the 20 to 30 seconds it's probably a mechanical problem. It's why I asked what happens when the watch stops? what I was thinking was you often see this with mechanical watches give the balance wheel a push it runs for a little bit until it comes to a stop. You supplied added energy to allow it to overcome the problem once that energy is gone the watch can't supply enough energy to run.

then the definition of cleaning is the same as a mechanical watch everything has to come apart cleaned reassembled lubricated all the bits and pieces have to be where there supposed to be then it still has to pass the dampening test.

 

 

[Btsuper]

The wording is a little bit strange but the purpose of the dampening test is to verify that the balance wheel and the rest of the watch is not dampening the energy from the balance wheel. In other words is verifying that the watch is in good running condition at least as far as this test. Esa 9154 is almost identical to the watch you have the test is the same. So the one that I grab hasn't been serviced in a very long time. So I rotated the balance wheel counterclockwise until it came to a stop which is just about one turn. Usually with balance wheel electric watches there's something to keep the balance wheel from rotating greater than one turn.  so rotating the balance wheel until it stops releasing the energy that you put into the hairspring now allows the balance wheels oscillate back-and-forth for at least 20 seconds if the watch is in good running condition. If the watch is like my watch that hasn't been serviced in forever 13 seconds.
Notice the reference to two years servicing? You can use this test for a serviced watch the verify that everything is free like it's supposed to be. You can also use it to verify that the watch needs to be serviced. So if you can't get the 20 to 30 seconds it's probably a mechanical problem. It's why I asked what happens when the watch stops? what I was thinking was you often see this with mechanical watches give the balance wheel a push it runs for a little bit until it comes to a stop. You supplied added energy to allow it to overcome the problem once that energy is gone the watch can't supply enough energy to run.
then the definition of cleaning is the same as a mechanical watch everything has to come apart cleaned reassembled lubricated all the bits and pieces have to be where there supposed to be then it still has to pass the dampening test.
 
 

Dear John,

I found that my 9150 running normally around few hours when it have battery, then suddenly the second hand stop and have a little shake but the balance wheel keep turning itself.
In this case, is it the pallet fork sticky? Please give me advice.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk