Basic silver soldering tools

[skridlov]

I have numerous cases needing minor repairs. Typically broken or missing fixed lugs on WW1 silver cased watches. I was wondering what it would cost me to buy the necessary soldering equipment to effect these repairs? No jewellers I've found in my area have the slightest interest in doing this work except at ludicrous prices - and even then grudgingly! Any relevant observations would be appreciated.

Thanks, Roy

[antonyh]

Morning Roy, well the really basic stuff is silver solder borax and one of little micro blow torches from cousins or about any where.

the trouble with soldiering any silver is keeping the heat down to a minimum, too much heat ant the silver item your working on either becomes so soft its usless or the item just melts in front of you.

Having worked for a jewellers for 20 plus years silver is a funny stuff , but for small jobs a quick in and out ,it could`nt be easyer.

hope this helps.

[Marc]

I'm wondering if a resistance soldering setup would work here as used in dial foot soldering machines. 

The advantage they have for dial repair is that they keep the heat to a minimum reducing the risk to the dial paint so I wonder if it could also work for silver cases.

Building a resistance soldering setup from an old pc power supply is on my to do list as I think it would be such a useful piece of kit to have.

[frenchie]

3 minutes ago, Marc said:

I'm wondering if a resistance soldering setup would work here as used in dial foot soldering machines. 

The advantage they have for dial repair is that they keep the heat to a minimum reducing the risk to the dial paint so I wonder if it could also work for silver cases.

Building a resistance soldering setup from an old pc power supply is on my to do list as I think it would be such a useful piece of kit to have.

Hi Marc,

If you ever do that, please post the results here, I'm very interested

As for the original post, no very much is the answer: $5 for the silver solder, $30 for a micro torch (much cheaper one available too)

[rogart63]

There is low temperature paste that jewelers use  when there is small parts they solder. Don't now if that would work. It melts at 227 degree and silver melts at 960 something. So there is a big difference. Only seen it in Swedish stores but sure that you can find it elsewhere. 

[antonyh]

There are lots of soldiers out there, all different melting temps, you can use white gold if you like.

As i said working with silver , its keeping the heat to a minimum, i have a micro welding machine, very high tempeutures, 

when i do something small like a watch case you bury as much of the case as you can in sand or some of this new thermo paste , then its heat on heat off quick as you can.

job done.

[rogart63]

4 hours ago, antonyh said:

There are lots of soldiers out there, all different melting temps, you can use white gold if you like.

As i said working with silver , its keeping the heat to a minimum, i have a micro welding machine, very high tempeutures, 

when i do something small like a watch case you bury as much of the case as you can in sand or some of this new thermo paste , then its heat on heat off quick as you can.

job done.

I don't think white gold will be such a good idea? It's platina in white gold and that has a very high melting temperature. Silver will be long gone by then. Good tips with bury the case in sand though. I used special plaster when i soldered  in gold. As the solder and the gold was very close in the melting points. 

[skridlov]

Thanks to you all for the information. I guess I'll have to buy some cheap tools (later to be replaced with better tools thereby maximising the cost...) and practice on something disposable. I've soldered thousands of components to PCBs but I guess that's not much help. There's surely a video on YT showing the technique needed when using a torch rather than an iron.

I looked at micro welding machines and they are obviously extremely useful. But the price...

Life has taught me that one has to do most things badly before eventually doing them less badly.

Roy

[transporter]

Roy, my sister is a silversmith, lucky me, anyway its one of her skills, I, m about to send her a small fob watch case that has a snapped hinge, to see if she is happy to repair it, she obviously has the tooling etc, I will post again with the results and any info about tools heat etc etc ok

[Sleeper]

Working in electronics we now use silver/tin and silver alone all the time since lead is now banned. Heat sinks are important to keep from melting other things. Wet rags, alligators clips and so on.   I have a leftover hunk of 25mm thick granite counter I use to put hot parts on to cool them quickly.  Also a heat sink will keep the soldered area hotter longer while keeping the rest cool. 

Old pliers with a rubber band on the handle to hold them closed helps quit a bit when soldering with silver.  

Use Oxy-MAPP, Oxy-propane or Oxy-acetylene mini torches as they heat faster than butane or propane micro torches. Speed is the key, heating things for a long time just melts it all to a puddle.    Oxy-acetylene is like a paint brush it's so fast.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Sleeper
gramer error

[skridlov]

Many thanks for the recent responses. I think there must be many people out here who need to do some simple repairs but are unsure about the process. Oxy-acetylene... I haven't used a torch for almost 40 years and only then for cutting. I was unaware that the materials were available in micro scale.

I have quite a few pre-WW2 silver watches that primarily require lugs repaired or replaced. There are also a few that have failed hinges which is a bit more of a challenge I imagine. It seems a shame that the low-end watches of this era are getting junked for such trivial reasons. Not that they lack other problems!

Roy

[skridlov]

I came across this torch on amazon (where else?)

SMITH(23-1001C) Micro Precision Oxygen Butane Welding Torch Kit

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0136JA0LK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2KZJ3BPMNX5LT&psc=1

Given that I also have some steel cases needing similar repairs it looks as though the oxy-acetyline torches might be a good longer term buy. This also means buying the other bits and pieces which come bundled with the propane based kits also on offer. Still looks as though I could get started for under £100. Does this look like a sensible approach? I've come unstuck a few times piling in and buying tools that proved unsuitable. 

Roy

 

 

[antonyh]

I`ve draws and draws full of tools that i`ve either used once or bought because i thought they might be usefull.

Ive got a dial foot repair tool , never used ,special soldiers for any and all types of metal from alliminum to stainless steel, tools

welders, i just like tools.

So if you`ve the time Roy buy it and have a go.

[Sleeper]

advice on tanks, stay away from the small disposable OXY tanks. Get at least 2 litter refillable OXY tanks. The small disposable tanks are filled with just low pressure gas and last about 45 seconds. They are impossible to dispose of easily. I had to take them to hazardous waste center.

Medical grade 4 litter tanks are best. They are easy to get refilled, are filled very clean oxygen and have the same connections as commercial / industrial tanks. A least this all true here in the United States. Don't know about the tanks available to our friends on the other side of the pond.

[skridlov]

Thanks Sleeper

Hmm. Food for thought. I'll have to investigate. I'd be interested to hear some opinions from UK users. I don't anticipate anything except light occasional use so I'm reluctant to spend too much - I would get this work done by a jeweler if I could find one who didn't want to charge so much!

Roy

[Neileg]

I think you've answered your own question. You need a working jeweller not a watch maker.

My local college runs jeweller's courses. They could be interested in your jobs as practice or you may find a student who'll work for beer money.
Ask at your local college.

Cheers Neil


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[skridlov]

Thanks Neil, that's a pretty good idea. There are lots of colleges round here. I'll investigate if I don't splash out for the hardware and have a go myself!

Roy